# Cop shoot, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478 "2006-02-28T17:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/21 "2006-02-28T18:49:33Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > If a person has practiced with his sidearm, as most cops do, five rounds should take just a touch over one second. I myself can do so in just under two (so I’m slow, my chief says it all the time.) > > The key here, at least as far as I can see, was did he have his weapon drawn when he stepped in the road. It was, according to the first article, a small parking lot. Not much room for either party to manuver. If he stepped out without the weapon being drawn, that’s self defense. If he had already drawn, then he forsaw the possibility that he would fire, and the “feared for his life” defense becomes bunk. > > I’m going to wait to see how the investigation comes out. I hope he was justified. If he wasn’t, I hope he gets 10 years in the can. Well that’s just silly. If he had time to step in front of it, pull his weapon out, and fire, then he had time to step back to where he was. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/22 "2006-02-28T18:58:28Z")
Did these kids even _know_ the guy was a cop; he was off duty, and likely not in uniform. They might have been thinking “Loony with a gun ! Get away !” I mean, even if I were to skip out on a check for pancakes, I wouldn’t expect someone to pull a _gun_ on me. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/23 "2006-02-28T19:00:05Z")
Why the hell does an IHOP even need an armed guard? And how many disgusting chocolate chip flapjacks do they hafta sell to pay for that guy? > [@WaPo #1](#): > > The officer ran out to the parking lot, a tight space shared by IHOP patrons and guests at the Comfort Inn to which the restaurant is attached, and tried to stop the youths from fleeing. He stepped into the path of the 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Crawford said, and, “fearing for his safety,” shot at the sport-utility vehicle. Yeah, I’d fear for my safety, too, if I had a habit of jumping in front of moving vehicles - not to mention my sanity. If this parking lot is such a “tight space,” how fast could this Jeep have been moving anyway? And from the last WaPo link, we find that the dead kid was seated behind the driver. And that the off-duty cop apparently fired the final and fatal shot thru the side window of the Jeep as it was passing by him. > [@WaPo #3](#): > > “As we round the corner, the cop runs in front of us and starts to fire rounds at the Jeep,” the reported passenger was quoted as writing on a Web site. “Four rounds go by and [the driver] swerved to avoid the bullet and loses control of his Jeep, and the cop continues to fire his gun.” ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/24 "2006-02-28T19:03:33Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Did these kids even _know_ the guy was a cop; he was off duty, and likely not in uniform. They might have been thinking “Loony with a gun ! Get away !” I mean, even if I were to skip out on a check for pancakes, I wouldn’t expect someone to pull a _gun_ on me. God forbid you read the OP rather than making stupid, incorrect assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![homeskillet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ba0ec/32.png) [@homeskillet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/homeskillet)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/25 "2006-02-28T19:14:08Z")
When shooting at a car to stop it, aren’t you meant to shoot at the \*tires \*! 😕 Whatever the case, I don’t see any reason a gun should ever be drawn over a dine-'n-dash. He should have just called in the license plate. Curiously though, what can a restaurant do if someone skips out on the bill without paying, once they get away (unless there are security cameras) isn’t it one word against the other? Anyone know how restaurants handle this? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/26 "2006-02-28T19:32:01Z")
> [@homeskillet](#): > > When shooting at a car to stop it, aren’t you meant to shoot at the \*tires \*! 😕 No. That’s in movies. They had a Virgina cop on the radio today say that they don’t fire at tires or the engine block or anything. They’re allowed to fire into the vehicle. However, this piggybacks on what **Mhendo** posted. Someone on that same show this morning was saying the kid was shot in the back of the head. That said, that’s the only place I’ve heard that, and even if it is true. . .clearly the kid could have been turning away from a man with a gun. Still. . .rumor mongering is FUN! To me, regardless of the original crime is, all that matters is what happened in that parking lot. Did the officer HAVE to use his firearm? If so, did he make a bad decision that put himself into such a position? Was he actually calmly trying to stop the vehicle and they tried to ram him, or did he run out in front of it. Without answers to those questions, it’s hard to really form an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/27 "2006-02-28T19:34:59Z")
Waiting for more details is important with respect to filing charges, not so important when chit chatting over the limited details you already have. From these descriptions it sounds like the officer put himself in harms way (in front of the car) in an effort to get them to stop, then shot it up when they didn’t stop as fast as he wanted. I’m not really thrilled with that concept, essentially he risked his life (and their lives, obviously) over some fucking flapjacks. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/28 "2006-02-28T19:35:45Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Well that’s just silly. If he had time to step in front of it, pull his weapon out, and fire, then he had time to step back to where he was. Actually, it doesn’t take very long at all. Most law enforcement officers do “speed drills” on their firing ranges. Like I said in my earlier post, I’m a slow hand on my pistol, and from the shout of “GO” I can draw, let loose with all 13 rounds and reload in just under five seconds. My squadron’s best is still held by an old (now retired) Chief Master Sergeant named Eric Williams, who could draw, empty his Baretta, reload, and empty it again in 5.something seconds. In a firefight, five seconds is an extremely long time. Sorry for the aside. Carry on! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/29 "2006-02-28T19:55:35Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > They had a Virgina cop on the radio today say that they don’t fire at tires or the engine block or anything. They’re allowed to fire into the vehicle. Ditto. It’s plain stupid. 1. Shooting out a tire on a vehicle coming towards you from a short distance away is not going to stop it or significantly alter its path. 2. Shooting at the engine flat-out wouldn’t do anything, unless the officer was packing a Barrett .50-caliber under his jacket. He might get lucky with his sidearm and make a hole in the radiator, forcing the vehicle to stop sometime in the next 1/2-hour… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/30 "2006-02-28T20:02:28Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > 1. Shooting out a tire on a vehicle coming towards you from a short distance away is not going to stop it or significantly alter its path. > > 2. Shooting at the engine flat-out wouldn’t do anything, unless the officer was packing a Barrett .50-caliber under his jacket. He might get lucky with his sidearm and make a hole in the radiator, forcing the vehicle to stop sometime in the next 1/2-hour… Then shooting the occupants of said car is also flat out, as that also will have no predictable effect of stopping or altering its path. Right? ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/31 "2006-02-28T20:03:00Z")
Wow, what a horrible, horrible story. I feel sad for everyone involved, especially the kid’s parents. It would destroy me if someone I loved died over such a trivial thing. It’s safe to say the cop totally over-reacted. Still, that doesn’t mean he’s an evil person. I can definitely see how, if he was angry at the kids and not really thinking straight, a person might act impulsively by throwing himself in front of the car…then panic and draw his gun when the car kept coming. Cops are just people like all of us, and a lot of people make stupid mistakes during emotional moments. I’m sure a few people on this board have also tried to stop someone from leaving by standing in their car’s way, and a few of us have probably also been in situations where we would have shot someone over something stupid if we had happened to have a gun at the time. Obviously I’m not saying it’s justifiable; just that I understand how such a thing could happen. ☹ I’ll bet the cop probably feels awful about shooting the kid now that he has had time to actually think about what he did. What a terrible way for so many lives to be ruined. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/32 "2006-02-28T20:05:53Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Then shooting the occupants of said car is also flat out, as that also will have no predictable effect of stopping or altering its path. Right? Yep. I pointed that out upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/33 "2006-02-28T20:08:23Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Why the hell does an IHOP even need an armed guard? And how many disgusting chocolate chip flapjacks do they hafta sell to pay for that guy? In my city (Jackson, MS) there are two IHOPs that I know of. Both are in neighborhoods that would make an armed guard a not-so-bad idea. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/34 "2006-02-28T20:15:14Z")
Ick. I’ve been to that IHOP; I used to live about a half-mile from there. It is a really small parking lot, so I can kind of see why it’d be tough to move out of the way. OTOH, if my memory serves (and spatial orientation hasn’t been my strong suit), there’s no way at all that a cop or anyone could have jumped in front of a moving car there and had enough time to make a reasonable decision as to whether the car would stop. If the cop shot, he jumped in front of the car with the plan of shooting – no way he could have given them enough time to stop before he started throwing shots. This maniac should lose his job. I know I’m painting with too broad a brush, but there’s not a week that goes by that something doesn’t make me glad I moved the fuck out of Virginia. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/35 "2006-02-28T20:15:32Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > It’s safe to say the cop totally over-reacted. No, it’s not safe to say that. It is very easy to imagine a scenario where the cop acted perfectly appropriately and to claim WITHOUT THE FACTS that “it’s safe to say he overreacted” slanders a cop who might have behaved properly. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/36 "2006-02-28T20:33:31Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > No, it’s not safe to say that. > > It is very easy to imagine a scenario where the cop acted perfectly appropriately and to claim WITHOUT THE FACTS that “it’s safe to say he overreacted” slanders a cop who might have behaved properly. Ever with the paucity of facts we do have, he overreacted. Dining and dashing does not justify walking in front of a moving car. Perhaps if they had abducted someone, or threatened someone with a gun; but over _pancakes_? The prudent response would be to get the license plate and call them in. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/37 "2006-02-28T20:38:25Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > I have no reason to believe the teens purposely “charged” the cop. They were likely just leaving, driving away, and the cop jumped in front of them. By all accounts, these were not bad kids. Sounds like this cop was on a big power trip and couldn’t handle the thought of kids getting away with free pancakes on his watch (as Mindshare said!) So you have no reason to believe the teens purposely charged the cop, but you’re willing to postulate the cop was on a “big power trip” with absolutely no more reason? Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/38 "2006-02-28T20:45:53Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > No, it’s not safe to say that. > > It is very easy to imagine a scenario where the cop acted perfectly appropriately and to claim WITHOUT THE FACTS that “it’s safe to say he overreacted” slanders a cop who might have behaved properly. The cop stepped out in the path of a moving SUV over an unpaid pancake bill. I’d like to hear the scenario where this is a more reasonable action than getting down the license plate number. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/39 "2006-02-28T20:51:09Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The cop stepped out in the path of a moving SUV over an unpaid pancake bill. I’d like to hear the scenario where this is a more reasonable action than getting down the license plate number. Beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/40 "2006-02-28T20:52:24Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The cop stepped out in the path of a moving SUV over an unpaid pancake bill. I’d like to hear the scenario where this is a more reasonable action than getting down the license plate number. Maybe it was a _lot_ of pancakes… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=3)