# Cop shoot, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478 "2006-02-28T17:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/441 "2006-06-19T23:47:34Z")
BTW, of course a moving vehicle all by itself doesn’t constitute a threat. If that were so, the police would be lined on the highway shoulders firing at every vehicle going by. It’s patently obvious that a vehicle moving directly at the on-foot officer with the vehicle swerving so as to render the officer’s attempt to not be hit useless is most certainly a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/442 "2006-06-19T23:52:51Z")
Besides the obvious fact that you’ve already been proven to be a liar, CBEscapee, you’re also a drooling moron, perhaps worse than your pal adopted. I did read the link. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/443 "2006-06-20T00:16:58Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] BTW, of course a moving vehicle all by itself doesn’t constitute a threat. If that were so, the police would be lined on the highway shoulders firing at every vehicle going by. It’s patently obvious that a vehicle moving directly at the on-foot officer with the vehicle swerving so as to render the officer’s attempt to not be hit useless is most certainly a threat. [/QUOTE] Contact the Portland police with your recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/444 "2006-06-20T00:34:19Z")
[QUOTE=CBEscapee] Contact the Portland police with your recommendation. [/QUOTE] I’m curious how the Portland Police Department perceives [this moving vehicle.](http://www.stephen-king.tk/images/christineB1.jpg) Suppose you could find out for me? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/445 "2006-06-20T00:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Besides the obvious fact that you’ve already been proven to be a liar, CBEscapee, you’re also a drooling moron, perhaps worse than your pal adopted. I did read the link. [/QUOTE] You’re fucking lying you heaping piile of dogshit. You read fuck all. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/446 "2006-06-20T00:46:49Z")
[QUOTE=Mince] I’m curious how the Portland Police Department perceives [this moving vehicle.](http://www.stephen-king.tk/images/christineB1.jpg) Suppose you could find out for me? [/QUOTE] Get back to me when you get done licking the shit balls from monty’s ass crack. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/447 "2006-06-20T00:58:20Z")
Very high calibre communication you’re evidencing there, CBEscapee. But, then, I expect nothing better from you. And that has nothing to do with your nationality or ethnicity. It has everything to do with your evidenced lack of character. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/448 "2006-06-20T01:13:28Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Very high calibre communication you’re evidencing there, CBEscapee. But, then, I expect nothing better from you. And that has nothing to do with your nationality or ethnicity. It has everything to do with your evidenced lack of character. [/QUOTE] Yeah well monty, since you had no argument to refute the information I linked to, you start the personal bullshit as usual. Completely expected. You know you lied about reading the article and you talk about character. You’re fucking pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/449 "2006-06-20T01:53:35Z")
Prove I didn’t read the article, troll. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/450 "2006-06-20T02:00:09Z")
CBEscapee: This, you liar, is the second time you’ve decided to falsely claim that I haven’t bothered to read links you’ve put up in a discussion. You really should get a new schtick. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/451 "2006-06-20T02:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] CBEscapee: This, you liar, is the second time you’ve decided to falsely claim that I haven’t bothered to read links you’ve put up in a discussion. You really should get a new schtick. [/QUOTE] The truth shall set you free you lying cerote. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/452 "2006-06-20T02:52:03Z")
Then I am a very free person, as I have yet to lie to you, troll. ---
**Author:** ![adopted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@adopted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adopted)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/453 "2006-06-20T02:58:35Z")
standing in the middle of the road, with a car coming towards you is putting yourself in danger. Stowe didn’t need to do that. He only moved to one side when he saw the car wasn’t going to stop. His initial position was infront of the jeep. Stowe wasn’t happily standing on a sidewalk waiting for the car to pass, he was standing in the middle of the road, waving for the car to stop, and moved to one side only when he perceived it wasn’t going to - and the margin? 3 or 4 feet!! If that isn’t putting yourself in potential danger then I don’t know what is. I think as a trained officer, Stowe should be able to better assess the situation, and should never have put himself in the path of the Jeep in the first place - and if you don’t think he did, then read the report again. Have you ever tried to avoid someone that appears suddenly on the roadway? Someone that first moves one way then the other? (Left to right, then back right to left). I am not saying that the driver wasn’t trying to hit Stowe, but rather that Stowes actions created a situation that left the drivers actions open to misinterpretation, and downright stupidity. There was no way that Stowe in any way NEEDED to move into, or anywhere near, the escape path of the Jeep - he could very easily have taken down the tags from a very safe position and called it in. By moving into the path of the Jeep he created the potential for the situation to escalate - that is what he bears responsibility for. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/454 "2006-06-20T03:00:17Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Then I am a very free person, as I have yet to lie to you, troll. [/QUOTE] I see you live in your own little bizarro world, baboso. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/455 "2006-06-20T03:21:16Z")
CBEscappe: You misspelled “yo” yet again. Unless, of course, you meant to be talking to adopted in that posting. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/456 "2006-06-20T04:15:40Z")
[QUOTE=adopted] Is it possible that the driver was not in control at the timeof the incident - one witness describes the jeep as fishtailing, which would be consistent with Stowes view of it moving one way then the other… also, how can “running across a carpark, and out from between parked cars” not be confrontational? I think this is a needless escalation, that Stowe should have taken greater care and that if he thought the driver had reasonable time to stop, Stowe should also have had reasonable time to move out of the way… Just my opinion, I think that given the circumstances, Stowe was justified, so the shooting itself was ok, but I also believe that it should never have reached the stage where he needed to pull his gun, that it was Stowe’s actions that took it to that level (or at least, as a trained police officer, he bears more culpability than the driver) [/QUOTE] Ya know if we take this idea to (il)logical extreme, then the officer should not have followed the kids out of the restaurant as that could be a needless escalation. Further more he should not have tried to stop them in the restaurant as that is confrontational and a needless escalation. I gues the waitress should not have pointed the kids out to the officer as that was a needless escalation and could lead to a confrontation. :rolleyes: :dubious: At what point does it become the fault of the kid that was trying to kill the cop? PS you might either want to stop digging, or you will have to get a friend with a bucket and a rope to help you get the dirt out of the bottom of the hole. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![adopted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@adopted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adopted)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/457 "2006-06-20T04:25:33Z")
Yeah - but the point is Rick, he RAN across a carpark and infront of a fast moving vehicle, seemingly giving it little time to stop (one would assume that with plenty of time to stop also equals plenty of time for Stowe to see it wouldn’t and get out of way) Stopping somebody on foot, or stopping them before they leave the restaurant - not life threatening for Stowe, so no need to pull out gun. IF they had been stopped in the restaurant, one takes a swing at Stowe, Stowe pulls gun I do not have problem. Where I do have problem is when he stands in middle of road in game of chicken ( and this is how it started) and then uses this as justification to pull gun - I don’t doubt he feared for his life, but he never should have put himself into that position in the first place. Now did he do something criminal? - PROBABLY not, could he have handled the situation much much better - I think so. Also could the driver have behaved better - CERTAINLY. It’s just that choosing between a trained police officer and a teenager, who is better able to assess the situation and act rationally - I would go with the police officer - I don’t beleive it happened in this case ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/458 "2006-06-20T04:35:06Z")
[QUOTE=adopted] Yeah - but the point is Rick, he RAN across a carpark and infront of a fast moving vehicle, seemingly giving it little time to stop (one would assume that with plenty of time to stop also equals plenty of time for Stowe to see it wouldn’t and get out of way) [/QUOTE] Are you illiterate? Stowe. Tried. To. Get. Out. Of. The. Way. There were only five letters in the longest word there, so I hope you’re able to comprehend it. He tried to get out of the way. He allowed himself “plenty of time” to get out of the way. He WOULD have been able to get out of the way. Except, of course, the driver SWERVED DIRECTLY AT HIM. The witnesses say he was pressed with his back up against the trunk of a parked car when the Jeep went by. If he didn’t try to get out of the way, tell me how he got from the middle of the lane to pressed up against the back of a car? He tried to get out of the way. Let’s say I’m riding my bike and I drop my wallet in the middle of regular, two-lane road. I walk out into the middle of the road to get it. A car pulls around the corner a ways away. No problem, I think. I pick up my wallet and I’m all the way over on the other side of the road (opposite the one the car is on), about to step up on the sidewalk as the car passes by me. Is that irresponsible? I obviously allowed myself enough time to get out of the way. If the car swerves over the center line and over the entire other lane of traffic and almost on to the sidewalk and hits me, that’s obviously my fault for not giving myself enough time to get out of the way, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/459 "2006-06-20T04:44:12Z")
[QUOTE=adopted] Where I do have problem is when he stands in middle of road in game of chicken ( and this is how it started) and then uses this as justification to pull gun - I don’t doubt he feared for his life, but he never should have put himself into that position in the first place. [/QUOTE] You’re a fucking moron, and you’re desperately trying to make this the cop’s fault for having the gall to be the target of a homicidal jackass. Fact is, if he had done as you said and tucked himself between two cars, the driver could still have plowed into the cars, squashing his ass. There was really no reason for him to expect that the driver would try to kill him, and he behaved accordingly. It’s perfectly normal for people to be on foot in a parking lot lane when there are cars driving in the parking lot, and questioning the cop’s judgement for it suggests that he should never be allowed to walk across a parking lot for fear someone might try to run him down. After all, you’re needlessly putting yourself in a vulnerable position and you might be forced to defend yourself if someone decides to run you over. I repeat: you are a fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/460 "2006-06-20T04:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Are you illiterate? [/QUOTE] Give him a break. He could just be exceedingly stupid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=24)