# Cop shoot, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478 "2006-02-28T17:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/101 "2006-03-01T04:21:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It sounds extreme to me too. Henceforth, all infractions no matter how minor, will be punishable by death. This includes littering, jaywalking, fudging on taxes, everything. The law is the law. All criminals must die. Oh, come on now. Couldn’t we act like a civilized society and just cut off their hands? A far more reasonable and proportional response, in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/102 "2006-03-01T04:24:31Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It sounds extreme to me too. Henceforth, all infractions no matter how minor, will be punishable by death. This includes littering, jaywalking, fudging on taxes, everything. The law is the law. All criminals must die. > > Uh huh. Yeah. Sorry, you don’t get to make my arguments for me. Let’s see, you’ve used both a straw man and a slippery slope argument. Bad start. I’m objecting to the general idea that a police officer shouldn’t try to detain criminals who are trying to escape after committing a crime. If the criminals pose a threat to the police officer then that criminal being shot doesn’t bother me, law enforcement has to be able to defend themselves. We don’t know that that is what happened here, we don’t know one way or the other so that’s why I reserve judgment on whether or not the specifics of this case were _justified_. I do however object to the _general idea_ that we should just let criminals get a pass because trying to stop them might result in violence. I’ll take a society with violence and little crime any day versus a society with violence and lots of crime. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/103 "2006-03-01T04:31:49Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > We have to live in a society where there is law and order. I don’t care if the kids are stealing $50,000 or $26, I don’t want to live in a sociey where thieves think they have the right to steal stuff and just walk away, simply because trying to stop them might involve an ugly situation. I don’t want to live in a society where there is no difference made between a person showing bad judgement and a bad person. I don’t want to live in a society where guns are the first call of action rather than freakin’ common sense. This story is just so sad. The lack of empathy for the “bad” victim is also sad. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/104 "2006-03-01T04:48:07Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t want to live in a society where there is no difference made between a person showing bad judgement and a bad person. > > I don’t want to live in a society where guns are the first call of action rather than freakin’ common sense. > > This story is just so sad. The lack of empathy for the “bad” victim is also sad. As I’ve said before, I have no idea what happened here, and will wait for more details before making up my mind, but I find not just the lack of empathy for a cop put in a terrible situation but the presumption that because he’s a cop he must been on a “power trip” or he must be a “macho asshole” to be even more disturbing. The force used MAY turn out to be wildly inappropriate, and the end results are undeniably tragic, but in their rush to judgment everyone seems to forget that this was a cop attempting to apprehend a gang of criminals during the commission of a crime. My initial sympathies are going to lie with the cop until all the facts are in. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/105 "2006-03-01T04:49:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t want to live in a society where there is no difference made between a person showing bad judgement and a bad person. I agree, that has nothing to do with what I said, though. Police have to try and stop criminals so that we can have a society with order and respect for the law. It is up for the court system to determine his punishment, and whether it was just a fleeting bad decision worthy of lesser punishment or indicative of a criminal nature and worthy of greater punishment. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to live in a society where guns are the first call of action rather than freakin’ common sense. I agree too. I don’t know if it was the first call of action in this case, if it was, that wasn’t good use of common sense. > [@](#): > > This story is just so sad. The lack of empathy for the “bad” victim is also sad. Aaron Brown put himself in that situation. I have trouble feeling much empathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/106 "2006-03-01T04:50:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It _would_ sound extreme—hell, it would sound pathological—coming from any poster who had previously demonstrated evidence of reason, humanity, and intelligence. > > But it came from **Martin Hyde**. > > 'Nuff said. You gotta give him this: He’s consistent. I’ve yet to see him offer any thought that wasn’t spawned under a rock embedded in manure. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/107 "2006-03-01T05:00:12Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > You gotta give him this: He’s consistent. I’ve yet to see him offer any thought that wasn’t spawned under a rock embedded in manure. How about this one: Eddy, I respect and admire you. Your arguments are incisive and poignant. You should be praised as prince among men. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/108 "2006-03-01T05:03:30Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I’m objecting to the general idea that a police officer shouldn’t try to detain criminals who are trying to escape after committing a crime. If the criminals pose a threat to the police officer then that criminal being shot doesn’t bother me, law enforcement has to be able to defend themselves. Hold on a second. This is a reasonable argument to me, but it’s far, far different from the statement, “Criminals are a plague on society, and in all likelihood this officer, whether his life was in danger or not, performed a valuable service by shooting that criminal.” An officer defending his life against any criminal, no matter how trivial, is acceptable. Shooting criminals, “whether his life was in danger or not,” is simply outrageous. It’s fucked up beyond belief. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/109 "2006-03-01T05:05:58Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Aaron Brown put himself in that situation. I have trouble feeling much empathy for him. If you have trouble feeling empathy for a guy dead because of an Ihop bill, whether he placed himself in that situation or not; then I suggest it’s time for quiet introspection. There’s something lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/110 "2006-03-01T05:15:57Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Shooting criminals, “whether his life was in danger or not,” is simply outrageous. It’s fucked up beyond belief. We seem to have a minor misunderstanding. If the cop shot the guy and his life or safety wasn’t in danger, it was a bad decision, one that cops shouldn’t make. But I still maintain that, _either way_ this is one less criminal in the world. It isn’t a great tragedy to me. I don’t support the death penalty but neither do I mourn for criminals who die. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/111 "2006-03-01T05:17:39Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > How about this one: > > Eddy, I respect and admire you. Your arguments are incisive and poignant. You should be praised as prince among men. :: snerk :: Can’t even get that right, said she. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/112 "2006-03-01T05:44:14Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > We seem to have a minor misunderstanding. If the cop shot the guy and his life or safety wasn’t in danger, it was a bad decision, one that cops shouldn’t make. > > But I still maintain that, _either way_ this is one less criminal in the world. It isn’t a great tragedy to me. I don’t support the death penalty but neither do I mourn for criminals who die. I feel that your backtracking a bit on what you said in post 98, but fine, as long as you agree that there’s a significant difference. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/113 "2006-03-01T05:57:45Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > :: snerk :: > > Can’t even get that right, said she. Hey, when I’m working with a user name that is the combination of three male names what do you expect? Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/114 "2006-03-01T05:59:08Z")
I have always heard from friends who worked retail, and also in several threads on this board, that if a theft occurs in a place of business, the staff is not supposed to follow the suspect out of the store (or in this case, restaurant), or to “give chase.” Isn’t this commonly the rule? So, why was a $26 pancake breakfast worth giving chase off the premises, into a parking lot? And again, why draw a weapon? Why not draw out a pad and paper and take down a license plate number and call in a description? This is just another reason in a long list of why this cop was way out of line. He sounds like a classic “hothead” to me. Probably so unhappy with his life and having to moonlight as security overnight at an IHOP (heh - not a cop’s dream job, or anyone else’s dream job, I am sure), that he was just itching for some real action to take place. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/115 "2006-03-01T05:59:56Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > I feel that your backtracking a bit on what you said in post 98, but fine, as long as you agree that there’s a significant difference. I still stand by everything I said in post 98, I just never made the claim that killing someone _regardless of the circumstances_ is “a okay.” It’s sort of like Jeffrey Dahmer getting murdered in prison, I’m not glad that a murder happened. But society had a net gain from the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/116 "2006-03-01T06:02:55Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > I have always heard from friends who worked retail, and also in several threads on this board, that if a theft occurs in a place of business, the staff is not supposed to follow the suspect out of the store (or in this case, restaurant), or to “give chase.” Isn’t this commonly the rule? I’m sorry, I forgot that the expectations we have of minimum wage retail workers were the same as we had for law enforcement officers. > [@](#): > > So, why was a $26 pancake breakfast worth giving chase off the premises, into a parking lot? And again, why draw a weapon? Why not draw out a pad and paper and take down a license plate number and call in a description? Because it was a crime. And writing down the license plate number is guaranteed to do jack shit. That means the owner of the vehicle will get in trouble, his kid more than likely. The other criminals get away. And there’s even a good chance something could be cooked up to get the people off entirely. Furthermore THEY WERE FLEEING CRIMINALS. If the police aren’t supposed to try and stop fleeing criminals I don’t know why we have police in the first place. What if two guys run out of a convenience store with a case of beer, the cop says “well, that’s only $15, not worth trying to stop them, I’ll just write down their license plate number.” Well, then the police get lam basted when the guys get drunk and kill someone on the road. > [@](#): > > This is just another reason in a long list of why this cop was way out of line. He sounds like a classic “hothead” to me. Probably so unhappy with his life and having to moonlight as security overnight at an IHOP (heh - not a cop’s dream job, or anyone else’s dream job, I am sure), that he was just itching for some real action to take place. It couldn’t be because cops are underpaid, and that he may have wanted some extra money. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/117 "2006-03-01T06:06:05Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Hey, when I’m working with a user name that is the combination of three male names what do you expect? > > Give me a break. They’re her cats. **nyctea scandiaca** , you are indeed correct. We were warned not to even accuse people, and even in the case of obvious theft (someone racing out the door with a DVD player in hand), NOT to give chase-it’s simply too dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/118 "2006-03-01T06:07:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > They’re her cats. Well, I won’t make the mistake in the future, but still, I think the mis-application of genders isn’t too hard to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/119 "2006-03-01T06:08:50Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > This is just another reason in a long list of why this cop was way out of line. He sounds like a classic “hothead” to me. Probably so unhappy with his life and having to moonlight as security overnight at an IHOP (heh - not a cop’s dream job, or anyone else’s dream job, I am sure), that he was just itching for some real action to take place. This post is just another in a long list of evidence that you’re a gibbering idiot. You sound like a sub-average-intelligence moron to me. Probably so unhappy with your last speeding ticket and having no other outlet for your rage that you were just itching for someone to pounce on with virtually no real-life consequences. Or . . . I could have absolutely no evidence for any of those assertions, and be completely out of line. . . Nah. I like your way better. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/120 "2006-03-01T06:09:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **nyctea scandiaca** , you are indeed correct. We were warned not to even accuse people, and even in the case of obvious theft (someone racing out the door with a DVD player in hand), NOT to give chase-it’s simply too dangerous. And tell me, **Guin** : Were you a police officer at the time? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=7)