# Cop shoot, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478 "2006-02-28T17:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/121 "2006-03-01T06:29:59Z")
This is too cool, I am so glad that all you folks will jump up and demand that I be allowed to walk out of IHOP without interference, without paying, because to do anything but take a license number is wrong and to much a reaction to my crime. Of course since I won’t have a correct tag, I guess I can travel this whole great nation and eat free on IHOP’s nickel because what I’m doing warrants nothing but the average police follow up to a unpaid IHOP bill. _snerk_ Too Cool. What are your addresses again? I love this attitude from my vict… er friends… ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/122 "2006-03-01T07:25:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > They’re her cats. Truly, what type of enormous assholishness does it take to haunt around a message board for _years_ and not even bother to learn the names of everyone’s cats? Damn, what a prick. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/123 "2006-03-01T07:32:11Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Truly, what type of enormous assholishness does it take to haunt around a message board for _years_ and not even bother to learn the names of everyone’s cats? Damn, what a prick. Harrumph! Indeed, Sirrah! (Madame?) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/124 "2006-03-01T07:57:35Z")
1. Apparently, as far as the police officer was concerned, the issue that required lethal force wasn’t the unpaid bill, but rather the attemted assault with a deadly weapon. 2. Viewing the video linked to earlier in this thread didn’t really shed that much light for me on the situation. Around here, there are plenty of buildings with parking lots in the rear of the building. To access the parking lot or to exit it, one must drive through a very narrow opening to the street. Sometimes the entrance to the building is actually in that opening and sometimes the door opens into the opening instead of into the building. 3. I echo what a number of other posters have said: there aren’t enough facts to make a decision on this case yet. However, the cop bashers still are having a field day. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/125 "2006-03-01T07:59:29Z")
Forgot something. 1. (Speculation follows) Perhaps shooting the driver would keep said driver from accelerating the vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/126 "2006-03-01T08:25:05Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Harrumph! Indeed, Sirrah! (Madame?) 😉 Well, I know their names now. . . ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/127 "2006-03-01T09:18:11Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > And tell me, **Guin** : Were you a police officer at the time? Now _that’s_ a funny thing to imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Carnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carnick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnick)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/128 "2006-03-01T11:10:09Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Truly, what type of enormous assholishness does it take to haunt around a message board for _years_ and not even bother to learn the names of everyone’s cats? Damn, what a prick. But they’re her _kids_. Let’s watch as all the aging anti-authority hippies ooze out of the woodworks ready to gang lynch the police officer with their ad hominem attacks. Fuck the facts. Fuck “innocent until proven guilty.” He’s a pig! DOWN WITH THE MAN! UP WITH IPODS! Sometimes the dope is so predictable. I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/129 "2006-03-01T11:51:26Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Ick. **I’ve been to that IHOP** ; I used to live about a half-mile from there. > > It is a really small parking lot, so I can kind of see why it’d be tough to move out of the way. OTOH, if my memory serves (and spatial orientation hasn’t been my strong suit), **there’s no way at all that a cop or anyone could have jumped in front of a moving car there and had enough time to make a reasonable decision as to whether the car would stop. If the cop shot, he jumped in front of the car with the plan of shooting – no way he could have given them enough time to stop before he started throwing shots.** This maniac should lose his job. > > I know I’m painting with too broad a brush, but there’s not a week that goes by that something doesn’t make me glad I moved the fuck out of Virginia. > > –Cliffy I felt this post needed to have attention drawn to it. What will those of you who characterized the teens as “criminals” have to say if it it was indeed a huge misunderstanding, and they had left their payment on the table as one of the dead teen’s friends posited? :dubious: I just don’t see how such extreme actions in the attempt at apprehension were practical in this case. Hell, cops aren’t allowed in some states to go on high speed pursuits of speeders anymore. I think he should have gotten their tags, not moved into the path of the vehicle. For all we know, the kid who died thought his buddy, the driver had paid for everyone and he left thinking nothing was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/130 "2006-03-01T11:59:46Z")
Ok, now that I’ve got the video to work that covered the blog entry I see that at least one passenger knew it was a “dine n dash”, so maybe the kid who died knew as well. I will wait for more information before I solidfy my opinion wholly. However, I still think that it would have been MUCH more prudent for the officer to get the tags instead of stepping into the path of the vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/131 "2006-03-01T12:08:01Z")
> [@Carnick](#): > > But they’re her _kids_. > > Let’s watch as all the aging anti-authority hippies ooze out of the woodworks ready to gang lynch the police officer with their ad hominem attacks. > > Fuck the facts. Fuck “innocent until proven guilty.” He’s a pig! DOWN WITH THE MAN! UP WITH IPODS! Sometimes the dope is so predictable. I love it. There are no acceptable circumstances for shooting at check skippers. Therefore we’re quite justified in rushing to judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/132 "2006-03-01T13:02:56Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > There are no acceptable circumstances for shooting at check skippers. Therefore we’re quite justified in rushing to judgement. Perhaps you missed the last seven pages. The issue isn’t whether he shot in response to flapjack jacking, but rather **in response to being attacked with an automobile.** We don’t know if the facts support the shooting or not, but it’s a pretty reasonable assumption the guy didn’t shoot the kids over pancakes. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/133 "2006-03-01T13:07:04Z")
**Slacker** , please see either post number 34, or scroll up and read post 129, where I quote that post. I’d say it’s up in the air whether or not he was “_ **attacked with an automobile** _” given the size of the parking lot, and possible lack of judgement in going in it’s path in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/134 "2006-03-01T13:11:40Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > **Slacker** , please see either post number 34, or scroll up and read post 129, where I quote that post. I’d say it’s up in the air whether or not he was “_ **attacked with an automobile** _” given the size of the parking lot, and possible lack of judgement in going in it’s path in the first place. I agree. Hence my comment about not knowing if the facts support the officer’s actions. I just think this hardline “There are no acceptable circumstances for shooting at check skippers” logic is moronic. If these kids did indeed threaten the officer’s safety with the car, they were no longer mere check skippers. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/135 "2006-03-01T13:13:58Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Besides, we have already established in this worst case scenario that there wasn’t even room in this teeny, tiny parking lot for the cop to dodge out of the way, much less a full sized SUV; therefore, it had no choice but to go straight ahead. Hey, you might just want to get run over, but I’d try to do something in that set of circumstance. A slight chance of success is better than none. > [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > I have always heard from friends who worked retail, and also in several threads on this board, that if a theft occurs in a place of business, the staff is not supposed to follow the suspect out of the store (or in this case, restaurant), or to “give chase.” Isn’t this commonly the rule? Not always. When I worked at a stationary store I got sent after some shop lifters and managed to chase them long enough for the off duty police officer I happened to be ringing up to catch one of them in his car. It depends on the company or store’s policy. > [@tagos](#): > > There are no acceptable circumstances for shooting at check skippers. Therefore we’re quite justified in rushing to judgement. So if the check skippers are shooting at police and innocent civilians, they shouldn’t be shot at? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/136 "2006-03-01T13:35:23Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > So if the check skippers are shooting at police and innocent civilians, they shouldn’t be shot at? Don’t be a friggin’ idiot. They would then be armed gunmen not check skippers. Hey - but what if they had a crocodile and it had a laser beam on its head? Huh, huh? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/137 "2006-03-01T13:36:24Z")
Trying again. Do we know for certain that the young man killed was indeed part of the “dine and dash” group? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/138 "2006-03-01T13:36:55Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Perhaps you missed the last seven pages. The issue isn’t whether he shot in response to flapjack jacking, but rather **in response to being attacked with an automobile.** We don’t know if the facts support the shooting or not, but it’s a pretty reasonable assumption the guy didn’t shoot the kids over pancakes. Thanks for playing. Screw you. He was clearly not attacked with a car. He stepped into its path to shoot it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/139 "2006-03-01T14:06:25Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > Does anyone know what happened in the case a couple weeks ago where the cop shot a military man when he was on the ground and obeying the officer’s commands and it was call captured on tape? I haven’t heard anything at all about it since then. I guess it was swept under the rug. Maybe all the facts weren’t in, so they dropped the investigation (knowing that only bad people get beat up or shot). :rolleyes: > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Post 96 ----\> > The thieves caused this situation, not the cops. They could have refrained from being thieves and that stupid fool of a kid wouldn’t be dead. But they chose to be thieves, and criminals shouldn’t be allowed a pass just because stopping them is ugly. Criminals are a plague on society, and in all likelihood this officer, whether his life was in danger or not, performed a valuable service by shooting that criminal. > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Post 102 ----\> > Let’s see, you’ve used both a straw man and a slippery slope argument. Bad start. … > If the criminals pose a threat to the police officer then that criminal being shot doesn’t bother me, law enforcement has to be able to defend themselves. > > We don’t know that that is what happened here, we don’t know one way or the other so that’s why I reserve judgment on whether or not the specifics of this case were justified. You made this slippery slope in post 96. I was applying your own logic to all crimes, using your yardstick - criminals bad - smash puny criminals. You said (see the above quote) that it doesn’t matter to you one bit whether the policeman was in danger or not. The “cop haters” are accused of jumping before all the facts are in. Aren’t the “criminal haters” jumping too? Maybe the pancake bandit was trying to run him down. Maybe not. Maybe if shooting at the van WAS justified, if the SUV or van was aimed at the cop, the driver who was actually driving should have been hit, and not some guy in the back seat. Gun control still means hitting what you aim at. Gun control does not mean firing all your rounds in the hope that you hit something. Pancakes are not worth a life. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478/140 "2006-03-01T14:21:51Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Also, they were bad kids, they were criminals. and > [@](#): > > Aaron Brown put himself in that situation. I have trouble feeling much empathy for him. Wow, judge _and_ jury huh? I guess you’re a bit envious that the cop was the executioner instead of you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-shoot-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/346478.md?page=8)