# Cop uses taser on handcuffed 9 yr old girl **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449 "2004-05-28T01:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/41 "2004-05-28T04:26:32Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > and someone made what seems IMO to be a profoundly, career-ending bit of poor judgment. This obviously wasn’t a momentary decision. > [@From the Story](#): > > Molina said one officer initially responded to the call from the school. That officer requested assistance from another officer and specifically asked that the second officer bring a Taser. If he asked for backup and asked that that backup had a Taser and the officer that arrived there decided to use it because things hadn’t gotten under control there was a serious sustained resistance going on. ---
**Author:** ![01010000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/0/94ad74/32.png) [@01010000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/01010000)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/42 "2004-05-28T04:38:12Z")
Now that we know that a taser is approved for use on children 9 years old, they should be marketed to all families that have problems with the children that are 9 years old or older along with a pair of handcuffs for restraining them when they get out of hand. We can shrink wrap the two into a single package. I don’t know about any of you, but I’ve seen plenty of cops tv shows where an adult that was put in the car was trying to kick the window out but I don’t recall any of them being tasered, but maybe that happened off camera. I would be curious as to what the race of the girl was and the race of the officers. I would also be curious as to how these officers treat their own children and spouses if they have any. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/43 "2004-05-28T04:38:16Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > I understand what you are getting at, but tasering a 9-year old seems to me to be one of the worst ways to subdue them, from an effectiveness and health-risk standpoint. But I don’t know, no one on this Board was there of course. It’s possible that there was just a whole lot o’ panic goin’ on, and someone made what seems IMO to be a profoundly, career-ending bit of poor judgment. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/44 "2004-05-28T05:01:19Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I love the fact that the Bushco supporters can’t pass up an attack. > > Says a lot about them. What the FUCK does Bush have to do with this? Jesus Christ, **Reeder** , did Bush stomp your puppy or something? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/45 "2004-05-28T05:22:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What the FUCK does Bush have to do with this? > > Jesus Christ, **Reeder** , did Bush stomp your puppy or something? No, but Bush is nevertheless responsible for every stomped puppy in America. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/46 "2004-05-28T06:45:58Z")
A little more info from a [followup article](http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/23559.php): > [@](#): > > Fred Chaffee, president and CEO of the children’s home, said he couldn’t comment on the incident, but said the home is a residential psychiatric center for children with “pretty serious problems” who “need 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week intensive treatment intervention.” > > “These are youngsters who . . . can present with issues very troubling to the community around them and themselves,” he said. “A lot of these youngsters, no matter what they’re diagnosed with, have poor self-esteem, poor impulse control and poor judgment, a learned set of behaviors that aren’t terribly socially acceptable.” > > The sergeant and another officer at the scene knew the girl had been violent with police and school officials before, said attorney Michael Storie, who is representing the sergeant. > > Details about what the girl was doing when officers arrived and the escalation of the confrontation have not been released by South Tucson police. > > Storie said, however, that the officers responded properly, considering that less-serious attempts to subdue her failed. > > “They tried verbal commands. They tried to restrain her. They tried to handcuff her and seatbelt her, and she unbelted herself. They tried tying her legs together and she thrashed out of it,” he said. “At the end of it, she thrashed out of her leg ties and was trying as hard as she could to kick out the windows of the police car.” I’m not a Bushco supporter, and I’m in the “wait for the facts” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/47 "2004-05-28T06:55:55Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I love the fact that the Bushco supporters can’t pass up an attack. > > Says a lot about them. Bush is a douche. So are you. On the other hand, I simply can’t imagine any possible circumstance where a nine-year-old needs her bowels released electrically. However, I’m willing to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/48 "2004-05-28T07:02:38Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I love the fact that the Bushco supporters can’t pass up an attack. > > Says a lot about them. And to think I avoided the boards for a day because I started to sound like an asshole. Is Bush responsible for my mom’s death to cancer? I’m sure you can find a reason **Reeder**. Fuck, you’re starting to make me sound sensible. :wally :smack: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/49 "2004-05-28T07:04:13Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Have tasers ever been tested on children? I doubt it, so we’re actually talking about an _unknown_ risk. Well, maybe this will help answer the question? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/50 "2004-05-28T07:48:18Z")
> [@01010000](#): > > I would be curious as to what the race of the girl was and the race of the officers. Y’know, until I read your post the race of anybody in this incident never crossed my mind. Now that I’ve seen the question come up, I still don’t see the relevance. I think **Reeder** ’s premise was that _some_ police officers behave in a brutal manner. Unless race conflict is your thing, why not just wait until Al Sharpton shows up, hmmm? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/51 "2004-05-28T09:52:02Z")
It’s still OK to taser a 9 year old girl that _isn’t_ handcuffed, isn’t it? Or have they changed that as well? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/52 "2004-05-28T10:39:58Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Y’know, until I read your post the race of anybody in this incident never crossed my mind. Now that I’ve seen the question come up, I still don’t see the relevance. It was one of the very first things I thought of. But as there was no information on it available, I let it pass. For now. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/53 "2004-05-28T12:14:13Z")
> [@](#): > > People called these kind of cops pigs. I still do. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/54 "2004-05-28T12:28:38Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > Now, I don’t know what kind of cop we’re dealing with, here, or what sort of nine year old girl. I have only the story linked in the OP to go on. However, I would like to assume that no sane cop would zap any normal nine year old girl with a taser; seems to me that the chance of serious harm (including cardiac arrhythmia) would be pretty substantial. I’d like to assume that, and also that no sane cop would rape a suspect with a broom handle, or fire 38 rounds into an unarmed suspect, or … well the list is rather long. But I can’t make that assumption, because the cops have DONE these things. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/55 "2004-05-28T12:31:58Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Not being a Bushco (whatever that is) supporter myself, I’ll just say you invite attacks, R-boy. Your moral outrage just screams “ridicule me!” I know, being morally outraged over handcuffed 9 year olds getting tasered is so … what’s that word you guys like? Oh, yeah … “quaint.” ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/56 "2004-05-28T12:46:20Z")
Maybe that cop was just _letting off some steam_. You know, zapping a child with a taser isn’t that much different from a _fraternity initiation ritual_. And all the people who _jumped to Clinton’s defense_ are now the first ones to condemn _a guy protecting our nation in uniform_. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/57 "2004-05-28T13:59:17Z")
> [@01010000](#): > > I don’t know about any of you, but I’ve seen plenty of cops tv shows where an adult that was put in the car was trying to kick the window out but I don’t recall any of them being tasered, but maybe that happened off camera. You’ll note that the cop-on-the-scene didn’t have a tazer and needed to check with the backup that he had one, implying that it’s not standard issue. It’s entirely possible that 1) They’re rare enough that the likelyhood of you seeing one is very low 2) tazering people is unpleasant and not the sort of thing that you’d put on an ostensibly-for- most-audiences TV show. Therefore it’s not at all odd that you haven’t seen one on TV. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/58 "2004-05-28T14:03:20Z")
Let’s see, special needs 9yo girl thrashing around violently. What are the options? A: leave her alone. From the sound of it, not possible. B:Use restraints on her: They did and she was still a hazard to herself and/or others. C:Restrain her themselves: Increased chance of injury to herself or others. D: Blow her head off. Kind of extreme don’t you think? E:Use a taser on her: Effective, generally no long term effects and nobody has to worry about her hurting herself or others. F:Pepper spray her. Less humane IMHO then a taser and probably less likely to stop her from thrashing around violently. I agree that it’s a no-win situation public relations wise, but I think at the time it was the best possible solution. Peace - DESK ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/59 "2004-05-28T14:25:33Z")
Perhaps one of the problems in this case is that the police were inadequately trained in restraint methods? Surely the arrival of the _second_ cop should have provided enough capability to restrain the girl, if the cops knew what they were doing? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/60 "2004-05-28T14:41:29Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I’m sorry…but when there are two full grown police officers vs one 9 year old girl who’s in handcuffs and they resort to a taser…yes they are wrong. Okay, I’m going to step in on this one. Your response is horseshit, and appears to be nothing more than a liberal, kneejerk reaction with no thought involved. I teach Defensive Tactics for law enforcement and security. One of the elements of training is to understand what is happening in a stress situation, both with you as the officer and with the suspect (that’s the generic word referring to the person you are trying to subdue and control). It’s a reasonable assumption that the suspect has not received training in stress control; as a result, the officer is going to have someone on their hands who is suffering from auditory exclusion and literally cannot hear commands. In addition, the suspect will be suffering from tunnel vision and cannot see well except straight ahead, and the sympathetic nervous system will be running hogwild in “fight-or-flight” mode and dumping large quantities of adrenaline and other goodies into the bloodstream. The SNS dump causes enhancement of gross motor skills, but deterioration of cognitive skills. And in this case, those cognitive skills weren’t all that hot, as this was an apparent nutjob to start with (I don’t do PC phrases like “special needs”). The story was obviously written with a liberal slant to make the cops look like ogres because they tasered a handcuffed subject who happened to be nine years old. I’ll bet money that the reporter has never seen a restraint scenario with someone fighting full out in SNS dump mode. Yes - a nine year old girl will **seriously** injure herself and others in that mode. Heloise mentioned in another post that the TV news reported she was trying to kick out the windows of the patrol car. That indicates to me that she was in serious danger of hurting herself and others. She more than likely had fought like an animal during the restraint originally, and I would be willing to guess that the cop probably was injured putting the cuffs on her, although the story doesn’t say so. Having been a cop in similar scenarios, I say that the officer acted correctly in minimizing the potential for injury to both her and himself and other officers. Tasers were designed for usage in exactly these kinds of scenarios, and I think that the use of the taser was quite justified. The officer made a judgement call on the scene based on experience and training, and he made a good call. My $0.02 worth… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449.md?page=4)