# Cop uses taser on handcuffed 9 yr old girl **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449 "2004-05-28T01:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/61 "2004-05-28T14:53:19Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Is it possible that, while handcuffed, she would be able to thrash around enough to be a danger to _herself_? And that an attempt to subdue her could result in an officer getting bit? > > Really. I’m asking. Is it _possible_? Yes. It really is. And believe me, those bites hurt. My partner and I had to serve a warrant on a guy once, and as we were walking him out of the house, his 11 year old daughter decided to chow down on my partner’s left arm. It took about 15 stitches at the ER to set him right, and we were debating whether or not he would need rabies shots as well. ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/62 "2004-05-28T14:53:22Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Perhaps one of the problems in this case is that the police were inadequately trained in restraint methods? Surely the arrival of the _second_ cop should have provided enough capability to restrain the girl, if the cops knew what they were doing? I don’t think so, GorillaMan. When cops are dealing with an adult, as much physical force as needed can be used. But how much is too much with a 9 year old girl? From the sound of it, she was in the car to be transported. As one of the cops has to drive, the other would have been in the back seat with the girl. In a confined space like that, the girl would have been more of a danger to everybody as the cop would have less room to try keep her under control. If they would have left her alone in the back seat, she could have broken the window and cut herself, dislocated her shoulder struggling against the cuffs, etc. From the articles linked, I think they used the best response out of their limited choices. Not that I’m happy to see a 9yo tasered, but I also wouldn’t want to see anybody seriously injured Peace - DESK ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/63 "2004-05-28T15:01:29Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I’d like to assume that, and also that no sane cop would rape a suspect with a broom handle, or fire 38 rounds into an unarmed suspect, or … well the list is rather long. But I can’t make that assumption, because the cops have DONE these things. No. The cops have NOT done these things. Certain individuals, who happened to be cops, have done these things. You’re doing a guilt by association thing here: X broomhandled a suspect, X is a cop, therefore all cops broomhandle suspects. Do you think the entire US Army abuses detainees in Iraq? Or was that just the actions of a few? Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/64 "2004-05-28T15:06:48Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The cops have NOT done these things. That’s not what was said - it was that it is _not_ true that _no_ cops hace done these things. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/65 "2004-05-28T15:23:30Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > What about that episode of “The X-Files” with the little girl who hurled that cop out of a window using the awesome power of her mind? I mean, she was possessed, but still … Good going. Now I’ll be giggling all day long. I am the proud owner of a 9 year-old girl. If she was going nuts, even with handcuffs, I don’t think I’d want to get too close either. No taser for me, I’d be thinking fire hose. If the kid was thrashing around, a litle electrically-induced unconsciousness may have been prudent to prevent her from injuring herself. This cop would also have trouble if he brought an incapacitated little monster girl in with a pair of dislocated shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/66 "2004-05-28T15:24:00Z")
I just wanna say, **Clothahump** , thanks for jumping into this hotbed and trying to dispell ignorance. Between you, **Qadgop the Mercotan** (who has ALREADY posted that tasers pose no health risks to 9 year olds, with CITES), and **Master Wang-Ka** , I am of the opinion that correct action was taken. I appreciate the education. And man, do I not envy you people and your jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/67 "2004-05-28T15:31:21Z")
> [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > Let’s see, special needs 9yo girl thrashing around violently. What are the options? > A: leave her alone. From the sound of it, not possible. > B:Use restraints on her: They did and she was still a hazard to herself and/or others. > C:Restrain her themselves: Increased chance of injury to herself or others. > D: Blow her head off. Kind of extreme don’t you think? > E:Use a taser on her: Effective, generally no long term effects and nobody has to worry about her hurting herself or others. > F:Pepper spray her. Less humane IMHO then a taser and probably less likely to stop her from thrashing around violently. > > I agree that it’s a no-win situation public relations wise, but I think at the time it was the best possible solution. > > Peace - DESK I was just going to post something like this. What are the viable alternatives? I have 3 kids, and even the youngest (at 2) can put up a heck of a fight that requires more than 1 person to manage. The cops could have 1. tazered her, which they did, 2. administer a sedative, maybe a tranquilizer gun? Is that even legal? 3. beat her unconscious 4. choke-hold till she passes out 5. swamp her (smother her under their weight) 6. shoot her which of these are mosre acceptable? Do any of them make for a good sound byte/ picture for the police? So, naysayers, what would YOU do? Send her to Time Out until she calmed down? You are the man on the scene. Bear in mind that I am not saying that they might not have used excessive force, but I know nine-year olds well enough to know it was not an easy call to make. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/68 "2004-05-28T15:37:30Z")
The instant information age is quite interesting. One unique event can be kicked around the world by a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks who don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. It’s possible there were circumstances that warranted zapping the kid, and it’s equally possible the cop gets off on tasering little kids, who the fuck knows. Anything between those possibilities is possible as well. I’m with the cop, until facts prove otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/69 "2004-05-28T15:44:33Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I know, being morally outraged over handcuffed 9 year olds getting tasered is so … what’s that word you guys like? Oh, yeah … “quaint.” “Quaint” is exactly the right word, but it’s in the wrong direction. What Reeder has done is swoon with emotional outrage before hearing any of the facts, which makes me picture him wearing a corset and hoop skirt, ready to pass out if anyone mentions politics at the dinner table. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/70 "2004-05-28T15:45:06Z")
On preview, **Clothahump** , great posts. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/71 "2004-05-28T15:57:54Z")
What \*\*World Eater \*\* said. Thanks. **Clothahump** brings facts to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/72 "2004-05-28T16:11:35Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > **Qadgop the Mercotan** (who has ALREADY posted that tasers pose no health risks to 9 year olds. No, dipshit, he posted that studies have shown that tasers _shouldn’t_ pose a health risk to children. He did not demonstrate that tasers do not pose a health risk to children. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/73 "2004-05-28T17:06:59Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > No, dipshit, he posted that studies have shown that tasers _shouldn’t_ pose a health risk to children. He did not demonstrate that tasers do not pose a health risk to children. I’m still going to take the word of people who _actually know what they’re talking about_ over your suspicious conjecture. No hard feelings, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/74 "2004-05-28T17:38:37Z")
There are a lot of unanswered questions here that I’d want to have answered if I were investigating. Was the little girl in this state of mind generically, or only in response to being scooped up by cops to be taken back to the institution from which she escaped? How likely is it that the institution is a fucking hellhole from which any creature with consciousness would attempt to escape, and that the prospect of being returned involuntarily to it would elicit berserk behavior from any of its residents fortunate enough to get out? While I’m aware that 9 year olds don’t have the authority to decide when they will leave institutions, I’d sure as hell interview her to find out why she wanted out, and then poke around to see if she has a valid case (assuming she alleges mistreatment). And never mind “well if not a taser what _would_ you use to subdue a violently thrashing 9 year old who’s trying to kick out the windows”, I just plain have problems with “let’s force a human being back into the place she escaped from, and if she gets enraged or terrified at the prospect, we’ll subdue her somehow”. When you’re forced to be in a place you don’t want to be, and prevented from leaving, that’s a cage. I think cages are a piss-poor solution to crime and violence, and should always be suspected of harboring abuses and humiliations whenever there’s a conflict between the institution and a resident trying to get out. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/75 "2004-05-28T17:47:30Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The story was obviously written with a liberal slant to make the cops look like ogres because they tasered a handcuffed subject who happened to be nine years old. SNIP… You were going along fine there, **Clothahump** , dispelling ignorance with information most of us would not otherwise have had. Then you had to go and make a political jab out of it. If there was any obvious slant to the article it was that of outrage at what the reporter thought was evidence of child abuse. That he reacted emotionally and you rationally speaks more to the difference in your relative knowledge of similar events than to any political bias. You point out that, in all probablility, the cop was doing his job properly. But in real life, a cop just doing his job properly isn’t much of a story. The outrage of adult vs child was the story. That’s a reporter doing _his_ job properly. The reporter wrote the facts that were known. His own viceral response to what he knew (however incomplete that knowledge was) was impossible to keep out of his writing. I don’t believe reporters in general consciously slant stories against cops any more than I believe cops in general just enjoy brutalizing children. This was a first report. As more facts are known it will no doubt change. In the meantime I am content to wait for more facts. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/76 "2004-05-28T18:00:52Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > When you’re forced to be in a place you don’t want to be, and prevented from leaving, that’s a cage. I think cages are a piss-poor solution to crime and violence, and should always be suspected of harboring abuses and humiliations whenever there’s a conflict between the institution and a resident trying to get out. For what it’s worth, I agree with you. However, it seems that a lot of the outrage in this thread is due to what is perceived as excessive force in the apprehending of an individual. The outrage stems not from any police action (do we agree that the taser is a legitamate means of incapacitating adult detainees?), but rather from the age of the person being apprehended. The same conflict arose in the thread about handcuffing an old lady, if I recall correctly. My point is that there is NO good way to apprehend some people, and second-guessing the police actions based on the age of the detainee is not productive. The question as to whether she needed to be apprehended in the first place is a separate point, I think, and I do hope that they follow up on conditions in her institution. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/77 "2004-05-28T18:08:41Z")
when was tasers included in the police’s arsenal? i see a few guesses, but exactly what was(?) the original option available to the officers in just such a situation before tasers? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/78 "2004-05-28T18:26:15Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > when was tasers included in the police’s arsenal? i see a few guesses, but exactly what was(?) the original option available to the officers in just such a situation before tasers? Before Tasers, police usually were left with Mace, which would often fail to work on the heavily drugged or psychotic, or their batons, which leads to Rodney King-type incidents. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/79 "2004-05-28T18:43:49Z")
Well, just a couple of points: 1. When I was in grade 5 (so, 10) there was a special needs kid in my class - a small one, small for a 10 year old - one day he lost his temper and our teacher was trying to sit on him to calm him down - teacher was 6’1", 250 lbs. The kid threw him off like nothing. 2. **GorillaMan** police restraint techniques don’t necessarily work on everyone, particularly not someone who’s pissed. I don’t feel any sort of pressure point, joint lock, arm twist, etc, etc. I’ve dislocated my collar bone before and didn’t feel it. Someone had to point out that it was in the wrong place (man - were _THEY_ white in the face!) Anyhow - I think more info is needed before the cops can necessarily be condemed in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449/80 "2004-05-28T19:03:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Before Tasers, police usually were left with Mace, which would often fail to work on the heavily drugged or psychotic, or their batons, which leads to Rodney King-type incidents. I’ve certainly never heard of Rodney King-type incident involving a child here in the UK, where even CS spray is only a recent introduction. Does anyone know how such a situation would be (or has been) dealt with here, or in other locations where the cops are provided with less equipment? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cop-uses-taser-on-handcuffed-9-yr-old-girl/247449.md?page=5)