# Coporate America, I have a request... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878 "2003-07-12T01:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/21 "2003-07-14T14:58:40Z")
I didn’t read the whole thread so I’m sorry if someone’s said this before, but here’s my take, FWIW: In each of the situations you describe in the OP you have to pay (or pay more) for something because you didn’t initially investigate the cost yourself before you incurred it. And then you blame “Corporate America” and claim they are “fucking you.” I think you are fucking yourself. Your OP boils down to the following: 1. “I used a service without knowing how much it would cost and was then charged at a rate that I thought was excessive!” 2. “I failed to investigate the terms of a purchase and am now upset that those terms are less favorable than I hoped them to be! When speaking with a customer rep, that person failed to tell me how unfavorable the terms were!” 3. “I failed to investigate how I could save money on a service I use every day in my business, and the company failed to tell me how I could give the company less money!” I’m sure you let all your customers know of ways they can put less money into your pocket. Grow up, dude. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/22 "2003-07-14T15:17:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elbows \* > \*\*No, No. > > Here’s how they have it set up. > > Internet access; $50 per month. > > Cable Tv; $35 per month. > > If you don’t want the cable Tv then Internet access is an extra $10 per month. > > That, seems to me akin to going to dine in a restaurant and being told your entree will cost you an extra $5 because you’re not ordering dessert. > > I would be both familiar and comfortable with the concept of the vendor offering a discount if you get both services, but this is sort of the exact opposite of that. > > And I think it sucks. I think it’s bad business and I think it’s politician’s jobs to protect us from these bastards instead of serving us up on a platter. \*\* In a way, they are offering a discount. Internet access is actually $60 / month, but it’s only $50 if you order cable TV. Why do they say it the way they do? Several possibilities. 1. $50 / month looks better in advertisements than $60. 2. People will sign up for the cable, and then say, “Oh, hey, I get it for cheaper if I buy the TV as well”, or perhaps if it’s something that can be ‘added on’ later, they’ll feel more inclined to add it on, 3. Maybe, honestly, they want to use a bait-and-switch (or am I using the right term here?) tactic. They -want- to catch you with the extra $120 / year. Any and all of these are possible. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/23 "2003-07-14T15:37:03Z")
And don’t forget ATM access fees. I could possibly understand why a bank in Idaho would want to charge me money for letting me access my money in Texas. But I will never understand why a bank right here in town will charge me money for letting me access my money five blocks away. Makes me wonder when they’ll institute “Check fees.” ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/24 "2003-07-14T15:48:46Z")
FUCK! I just read the rest of this thread and it’s like a little idiot dance party in here or something (with the notable exception of a couple of others ( **sleestak** for one) fighting the good fight against ignorance). Jesus! I thought we were better than this here at the SDMB, people! If you don’t like ATM access fees, then just don’t pay them for Christ’s sake. It’s not like Bank of America comes up behind you on the street with a gun and demands a buck fifty from you. You have a choice whether to pay ATM fees or not. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/25 "2003-07-14T15:49:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elbows \* > Internet access; $50 per month. > > Cable Tv; $35 per month. > > If you don’t want the cable Tv then Internet access is an extra $10 per month. Hey, that’s not bad compared to how it is here. You can’t even get cable Internet access at all unless you sign up for basic cable. Hell, I wouldn’t want it anyway. Their commercials claim that they’re twice as fast as DSL. In small print at the bottom, the disclaimer is that they are comparing their service to 512kbps DSL. Uh, yeah. One problem there, bub. There is only one company in the city that offers DSL service and they only offer one residential plan, a 1.5Mbps downstream. They are actually much _faster_ than the lying cable bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/26 "2003-07-14T15:55:55Z")
**TaxGuy** Bite Me! I refuse to take shoddy treatment! In the Fed-Ex situation no less than 3 people could have told me about getting a regularly scheduled pick up including the moron who initially set up my account. I put a question regarding the greyhound thing in GQ, and as it turns out the people I talked to on the phone were fucking liars, the tickets says no such thing, so I’ll be going there tonight to demand a refund. As for the phone, well I have to eat that one. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/27 "2003-07-14T16:17:09Z")
Two golden rules of hotel stays: 1. Never make any calls from the phone in the room. 2. Never use anything from the minibar unless you can replenish it from a supermarket the next morning. Mind you, I broke both of these on my recent vacation. ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/28 "2003-07-14T16:27:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stuffy \* > \*\ ***TaxGuy** Bite Me! > > I refuse to take shoddy treatment!\*\* Then stop treating yourself shoddily and look before you fucking leap, fucknugget. (In case you didn’t catch on, I’m implying that your misfortune in each of the OP situations is your own fault). > [@](#): > > \*\* > In the Fed-Ex situation no less than 3 people could have told me about getting a regularly scheduled pick up including the moron who initially set up my account. \*\* Dude, since when is a business supposed to tell you about things that would make the business less money? Sure they could have told you, but I don’t think you can blame them because they didn’t tell you. You run your business, so it’s your job to reduce the costs of your business as much as possible; you should have looked for every way possible to save money on your bill, and for someone who does that much shipping, having a regular pickup time seems pretty damn obvious. > [@](#): > > \*\*I put a question regarding the greyhound thing in GQ, and as it turns out the people I talked to on the phone were fucking liars, the tickets says no such thing, so I’ll be going there tonight to demand a refund. \*\* Dude, the law does not give you the right to a refund. Therefore, the only way you can get a refund is if the contract between you and the seller gives you the right to a refund. All we’ve established so far is that the ticket does not say that it’s nonrefundable, which doesn’t mean you are entitled to a refund. \*\* > [@](#): > > As for the phone, well I have to eat that one. \*\* Of course you do, dumbass! Did you even check how much the rate for the room at the hotel was, or did you just get a room, go to sleep, check out in the morning, and complain if you thought the rate was too high? Of course you didn’t do that–you knew the price of a room before you slept in it. Likewise, you should have checked out the price of the phone before you used it. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? By the way, what sort of business do you run? With your stellar understanding of the rudimentary concepts upon which our economic system is based, I wonder if the place has ever turned a profit. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/29 "2003-07-14T16:29:08Z")
Hell, I’m still trying to figure out why I’m paying $50/month for my phone bill and I don’t make any long distance calls… ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/30 "2003-07-14T16:33:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > \*\*If you don’t like ATM access fees, then just don’t pay them for Christ’s sake. It’s not like Bank of America comes up behind you on the street with a gun and demands a buck fifty from you. You have a choice whether to pay ATM fees or not. \*\* So, when I go to San Antonio on vacation, I can tell the local bank to stuff their ATM fee up their ass? My credit union doesn’t have branches outside Pennsylvania. When I’m home, fees don’t matter; there is a network of credit union ATMs that don’t charge fees for CU customers that belong to that network, and the two largest CUs are members, so it’s not a big deal. OTOH, there is no such agreement between the PA credit unions and the Texas credit unions. So when I go on vacation down there, I have to pay ATM fees, or I have to carry a lot of cash with me. Oh, and BTW, were you born an ass, or was this quality developed over time? Robin ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/31 "2003-07-14T16:49:56Z")
MsRoby, so your attitude is: I want Bank X (with whom I have no financial relations otherwise and who therefore do not earn any income from me) to build an ATM network, buy machines, put them in every location that would be convenient to me, front the money they hold, pay a driver and truck to run around and refill/service them daily, and allow me to take money out of them whenever I please – AND I DON’T WANT TO PAY THEM A PENNY FOR THEIR EFFORTS. Hmmm. Can’t think why Bank X doesn’t leap at your marvelous business opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/32 "2003-07-14T16:54:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MsRobyn \* > \*\*So, when I go to San Antonio on vacation, I can tell the local bank to stuff their ATM fee up their ass? My credit union doesn’t have branches outside Pennsylvania. When I’m home, fees don’t matter; there is a network of credit union ATMs that don’t charge fees for CU customers that belong to that network, and the two largest CUs are members, so it’s not a big deal. > > OTOH, there is no such agreement between the PA credit unions and the Texas credit unions. So when I go on vacation down there, I have to pay ATM fees, or I have to carry a lot of cash with me.\*\* Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying: either pay ATM fees or carry enough cash with you. (BTW, since you can pay for most things with plastic, I don’t think you’ll ever need to carry really large amounts of cash (anything more than a couple hundred buks) to do typical vacation activities). If you don’t want to carry large amounts of cash, then pay the ATM fee. The ATM fee is a fee you pay for the service of a bank providing you with cash when and where you want it so that you don’t have to providet the cash yourself. Therefore, an ATM fee isn’t a “fee for nothing” that you are required to pay, like some people seem to think it is. The bank is actually providing a service to you. > [@](#): > > \*\*Oh, and BTW, were you born an ass, or was this quality developed over time? > > Robin \*\* Hey, I’m willing to be thought of as an asshole if that’s what it takes to fight ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/33 "2003-07-14T17:04:02Z")
**Taxguy** , there is a difference between somebody not paying attention or looking after their own interests, and the way corporations intentionally and systematically mislead the public. An excellent (if small) example of this is at Safeway. They will put up huge signs in huge letters saying “FRESH ROASTED CHICKEN! $4.99 EACH!!!” and in tiny little letters at the bottom of the sign it says “When you buy two or more.” It’s a very adversarial relationship; it’s us against them, with them having huge advantages in almost every way. As for the bank charges, the banks in Canada report astonishing profits every quarter (in the billions of dollars, if I recall correctly). I assert that they are not providing billions of dollars of service to justify these profits. ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/34 "2003-07-14T17:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the bank charges, the banks in Canada report astonishing profits every quarter (in the billions of dollars, if I recall correctly). I assert that they are not providing billions of dollars of service to justify these profits. Since when do profits have to be “justified,” whatever the hell that means anyway? So you’re mad at the bank for making a sum of money that in your estimation is not commensurate with the level of services the bank provides? We have a word for that around here . . . ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/35 "2003-07-14T17:52:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > \*\*Then stop treating yourself shoddily and look before you fucking leap, fucknugget. (In case you didn’t catch on, I’m implying that your misfortune in each of the OP situations is your own fault). \*\* You don’t say, I must have missed that :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Dude, since when is a business supposed to tell you about things that would make the business less money? Sure they could have told you, but I don’t think you can blame them because they didn’t tell you. You run your business, so it’s your job to reduce the costs of your business as much as possible; you should have looked for every way possible to save money on your bill, and for someone who does that much shipping, having a regular pickup time seems pretty damn obvious. \*\* Oh let me see, I’d call that good business practises. I could do a whole lot of similar shitty things to my own customers, but I don’t. Know why? I’d like them to continue doing business with me. Oh and somehow you seem to have missed on the fact, THAT’S EXACTLY WHY I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH MY REP In addition to the fact those charges were hidden by the fact they they charge my creditcard instead of sending me an itemized bill. \*\* > [@](#): > > Dude, the law does not give you the right to a refund. Therefore, the only way you can get a refund is if the contract between you and the seller gives you the right to a refund. All we’ve established so far is that the ticket does not say that it’s nonrefundable, which doesn’t mean you are entitled to a refund. \*\* Oh wait I get it, a major company with a murky refund policy is somehow my fault. Gotcha nice attitude…for a sheep. I’ve ommmited the phone part as I’ve already acknowled THREE FUCKING TIMES THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY MY FAULT. \*\* > [@](#): > > By the way, what sort of business do you run? With your stellar understanding of the rudimentary concepts upon which our economic system is based, I wonder if the place has ever turned a profit. \*\* Doing just fine, thanks for asking asswipe. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/36 "2003-07-14T18:29:23Z")
**Taxguy** You really are being kind of an ass here. The hotel phone thing is a non-issue as **Stuffy** has admitted that he was at fault, so I won’t even acknowledge that. As far as the FedEx thing goes, the whole point of _setting up an account_ is to sit down and figure out which services would be best for you, sign up for said services and start up your account. Considering that **stuffy** isn’t a mind reader (are you **stuffy**?) I’m assuming that he wasn’t _asking_ the rep about certain options as it was the _rep’s_ duty to be informing him of said options. How are you supposed to ask about something that you don’t know exists? 😕 As for the bank fee’s, well, I’m of mixed opinions on that. There are a lot of banks around here that don’t charge ATM fee’s (Washington Mutal comes to mind), so in my mind, it’s more of a matter of choosing convienence over saving a buck fifty. When you’re going on Vacation, you’ve got to plan for these types of things or consider it part of the overall vacation expenses. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/37 "2003-07-14T18:45:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > \*\*Since when do profits have to be “justified,” whatever the hell that means anyway? > > So you’re mad at the bank for making a sum of money that in your estimation is not commensurate with the level of services the bank provides? We have a word for that around here . . . \*\* Um, you were the one telling **MsRobyn** that the bank charges ATM fees for the service they provide. I am saying that the billions of dollars of _profit_ they make off of those fees is not justified by the service they are providing. In recent years, the level of service from banks has dropped significantly, yet the service charges and profits continue to increase. I’m sorry, I don’t get your oblique reference - what word are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/38 "2003-07-14T19:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > \*\*I didn’t read the whole thread so I’m sorry if someone’s said this before, but here’s my take, FWIW: > > In each of the situations you describe in the OP you have to pay (or pay more) for something because you didn’t initially investigate the cost yourself before you incurred it. And then you blame “Corporate America” and claim they are “fucking you.” > > (Points than an anal lawyer would bring up snipped) > > \*\* That’s right, because you’ve read the agreement on everything you’ve ever bought, right? You can say with 100% certainty that no single piece of software you’ve ever installed promises 10% of your bank account if the author ever requests it? You’ve read every single plane ticket you’ve ever purchased and made damned sure that, in case of emergency, the flight attendants aren’t allowed to beat you with a bag of oranges? And, of course, we’d all consider it completely reasonable for someone to do jail time because they recorded a Brewers game with only the implied written consent of Major League Baseball. Yeah, right. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/39 "2003-07-14T19:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Merijeek \* > \*\*That’s right, because you’ve read the agreement on everything you’ve ever bought, right? > > You can say with 100% certainty that no single piece of software you’ve ever installed promises 10% of your bank account if the author ever requests it? > > You’ve read every single plane ticket you’ve ever purchased and made damned sure that, in case of emergency, the flight attendants aren’t allowed to beat you with a bag of oranges? > > And, of course, we’d all consider it completely reasonable for someone to do jail time because they recorded a Brewers game with only the implied written consent of Major League Baseball. > > Yeah, right. > > -Joe \*\* But the difference, **Merijeek** , is that **TaxGuy** isn’t bitching about how he didn’t read the agreements. I take **TaxGuy’s** statements to be basically: If you didn’t read the fine print, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If I find out that one of the agreements I didn’t fully read says that the software company is entitled to 10% of my gross pay each year I used it, I would be upset but they didn’t screw me, I screwed me. And as for taping a baseball game, it’s only illegal (IIRC) to rebroadcast it without the explicit written consent. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878/40 "2003-07-14T19:28:48Z")
Well then how would you suggest **stuffy** read the fine print on the bus ticket, considering the fine print _was on the back of the ticket he had just purchased?_ Kinda hard to read the fine print on something before buying it when it’s printed on the very thing you’re buying. I’ve never bought a bus ticket, but I’m assuming it doesn’t involved contracts or anything like that, but I could be wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coporate-america-i-have-a-request/187878.md?page=3)