# Cops Kill Innocent Hofstra Student **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722 "2013-05-19T04:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/21 "2013-05-19T20:42:43Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > No, if you don’t see the difference between “point and empty your gun” versus what **Ducati** said you should probably consider that you aren’t able to distinguish two very different things. Really? They were close enough that **ducati** ’s rant made go :dubious: **Der Trihs** often takes the contrary position just to stir shit up, but this isn’t one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/22 "2013-05-19T20:50:31Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So why did the cop fire eight rounds? Because he’d written off the hostage. Whether or not he was _right_ to conclude that he couldn’t save her, that’s what resorting to weight of fire as a solution means. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/23 "2013-05-19T21:03:55Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > It’s a tragic ending, but who’s to say the criminal wouldn’t have killed her? I’m not sure I see cause for outrage here, based on what I’ve read. But what do I know? It’s obvious the criminal was using the hostage as a shield. He knew that if he harmed the hostage the police would immediately kill him. Thus he had no incentive whatsoever to kill the hostage. What’s not clear as to who the police were: were they the half-dozen or so squad cars who could get there first or were they a trained SWAT team? If the former they should have withdrawn to a perimeter and waited for the SWAT team–officers trained to deal with this type situation, rather than just start shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/24 "2013-05-19T21:19:04Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > I’ve done it countless times, and since I wasn’t there to see the situation and the details, I would never presume to judge what another officer did until \*all of the facts of the situation are known and investigated. > \* > > \ > > Police shoot until the threat to life is over. It usually takes multiple rounds. In the time frame that this takes, everyone is moving, and I suspect - but do not know - that the hostage moved into the path of a bullet. If you’re not going to presume to judge the cop until all the facts are known and investigated, maybe you should hold off on assuming it’s the victim’s fault for shoving her head in front of that bullet. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/25 "2013-05-19T21:45:02Z")
First off, **Ducati** that would have been a great post if you would’ve left **Der Trish** out of it. But I can look past that. As you said, the hostage is of the utmost importance. I don’t see how firing multiple rounds would be more effective than one clean head shot. If you don’t think your good enough to make that shot, what would make you think 8 rounds would be a good idea? Perhaps an officer should have ventured into the fray to cause a distraction or get a good shot and quite possibly sacrifice him/herself in the process. Whatever it takes to get the hostage safe. My solutions are certainly a wild hypothetical but like I said I just don’t see how firing 8 rounds is the most effective solution because even as you said yourself, the hostage could get in the way of a bullet. I also think it’s perfectly fair to criticize the cop. He did kill her. A fellow citizen of mine. More citizens should take it personally. This is not to say I don’t have sympathy for the cop too. I’m sure he/she did their best. Overall, it’s just a tragic situation. Makes me wonder what that guys prior arrests were and what had led his life into such turmoil? Most likely drugs. Who enforces those laws? Oh that’s right - Cops. Of course, they are just doing their job. They are only following policy set by our representatives. And how did those people get into those positions to make those decisions? Oh, that’s right - we voted them in. I’m just rambling at this point. I guess you could say there’s plenty of blame to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/26 "2013-05-19T21:49:47Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I’m just rambling at this point. I guess you could say there’s plenty of blame to go around. I’d say there’s actually very little blame to go around. And all of it falls on the douchebag who took her hostage. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/27 "2013-05-19T21:52:08Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I’d say there’s actually very little blame to go around. And all of it falls on the douchebag who took her hostage. How about whatever judge let him out on parole, despite his history as a violent criminal? ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/28 "2013-05-19T22:01:31Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Perhaps an officer should have ventured into the fray to cause a distraction or get a good shot and quite possibly sacrifice him/herself in the process. Whatever it takes to get the hostage safe. I don’t think you can ask a police officer to take that risk like that. There’s the ordinary risk of the job, and then those kind of mad heroics. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/29 "2013-05-19T22:19:07Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I’d say there’s actually very little blame to go around. And all of it falls on the douchebag who took her hostage. Certainly a valid point. I agree with you to an extent. It doesn’t address the root cause leading up to the situation in the first place though. I imagine this was a desperate man. Desperate times will call for drastic measures and people will do what they need to do in order to survive. I’m reminded of great Kahlil Gibrans quote. ``` "Oftentimes have I heard you speak of one who commits a wrong as though he were not one of you, but a stranger unto you and an intruder upon your world. But I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you, So the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also. And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, So the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all." ``` ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/30 "2013-05-19T22:20:19Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > I don’t think you can ask a police officer to take that risk like that. > > There’s the ordinary risk of the job, and then those kind of mad heroics. Well, they signed up for it. The hostage life comes before the cops. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/31 "2013-05-20T00:18:07Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > You understand nothing. This is one of the most idiotic statements I’ve ever read. > [@Flyer](#): > > I hate to break it to you, but you’re the idiot. People, you’re in MPSIMS. If you want to call each other idiots – or insult each other in any other way – go do it in the Pit. If you want to debate any element of the criminal justice system, start a thread in Great Debates. Thanks, **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/32 "2013-05-20T00:33:38Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Well, they signed up for it. The hostage life comes before the cops. When do police officers sign up to “sacrifice” their lives (not “risk”, but “sacrifice”) for the public? Do you have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/33 "2013-05-20T02:00:54Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > When do police officers sign up to “sacrifice” their lives (not “risk”, but “sacrifice”) for the public? Do you have a cite for that? To protect and serve is the motto, no? I assume that goes by whatever means necessary. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/34 "2013-05-20T02:08:02Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I hadn’t realized that _Speed_ was used as a training video for hostage situations. ☹ i always thought a hostage situation like that would be easily negated by a dead faint, pretend or otherwise, by the hostage - no need to aid the guy by propping up the shield you know? i know it wouldn’t make for a tense scene, but perhaps movies should instead do that more often to educate would be hostages. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/35 "2013-05-20T02:39:23Z")
And we all know that everything you see in a movie is 100% accurate. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/36 "2013-05-20T02:44:43Z")
you disagree that more people would not be such unwitting meatshields if that is not the convention shown on tv? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/37 "2013-05-20T02:53:56Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > you disagree that more people would not be such unwitting meatshields if that is not the convention shown on tv? Hollywood producers are interested in entertaining people, not in creating educational films. Nobody buys an action movie as being exactly like real life. You’re never going to see it. How many times has anyone ever said, “I saw this in a movie” and had it work in real life? I think your expectations of what producers ought to put in movies and TV shows is completely unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/38 "2013-05-20T03:05:19Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So why did the cop fire eight rounds? Because she was “beautiful,” according to headlines. Had she been ugly or black (or not as hot in her sexy super hero costume), cops probably would have let the guy kill her himself. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/39 "2013-05-20T03:09:20Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Police shoot until the threat to life is over. And what threat to life did the student present? ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722/40 "2013-05-20T03:28:46Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Because she was “beautiful,” according to headlines. > > Had she been ugly or black (or not as hot in her sexy super hero costume), cops probably would have let the guy kill her himself. Now, that’s uncalled for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-kill-innocent-hofstra-student/658722.md?page=3)