# COPS: Rudeness Is OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699 "2003-01-30T20:07:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/61 "2003-01-31T19:38:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\* > Since then I’ve talked to some cops I’ve treated for injuries about this situation, and they looked sort of uncomfortable, but didn’t explain. One did recommend that I not put myself at risk by offering to help, and just act like a regular civilian and stay out of their way. I’ve followed that advice since. They can wait for paramedics. \*\* Probably liability issues. If you get involved and make a mistake, or the guy dies, the police might be liable for letting an unauthorized person try to help. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/62 "2003-01-31T19:53:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **I’ve already said that most cops are fine, but what bugs me isthat the bad ones get a free ride** Last time I checked, Justin Volpe was in prison. \*\* > [@](#): > > Here’s a nice story for you, a college friend of my wife’s was pulled over several years ago on some pretense which I can’t remember. The officer put her in his car, drove her to a secluded area, raped her and then stabbed her multiple times before dumping her out on the street and leaving her for dead. Unfortunately for him, the girl did not die. She stopped another driver who brought her to the hospital and called the police. My wife’s friend was able to give a good description of the officer, and I think even his badge number (or maybe it was numbers from his car, I don’t remember the details that well, this was in the late 80’s). > > There was good forensic evidence (semen, hair) and the guy went to trial. He actually claimed at trial that the girl had “wanted it,” and that she had told him that being cut with a knife “turned her on.” He was convicted of some sort of assault (not attempted murder) and presented his good police record before sentencing. Because of hi so called “service to the community” before this he was only given five years and got out in two. > > What would have happened to some random African-American off the street who had done the same thing? I’m not saying all, or most cops are bad. I just want the ones who are to be treated like any other criminal. > > (BTW, the police who were called to the hospital and who investigated the crime, were completely compassionate, respectful, sensitive and outraged that another officer had done this) \*\* Give me a cite on this, as I’m not going to believe some “my mothers fifth cousin on my fathers side” bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![mr.greg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@mr.greg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.greg)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/63 "2003-01-31T19:59:31Z")
World Eater: Eat Me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/64 "2003-01-31T20:07:40Z")
OK. With all due respect to the myriad opinions offered above, here’s what the law is: The cops cannot simply pull you over on a whim and search your car. Any traffic stop must be based on probable cause to believe a crime or violation has been committed. Even after you’re pulled over, the police can generally not search your car without some additional reason. They may ask you for consent to search. They may develop probable cause to search based upon their interaction with you. They may briefly detain you in order to have a drug dog sniff your car, which does not implicate the Fourth Amendment – that is, it’s not an intrusive enough process to trigger constitutional protection. They may briefly detain and search your person by patting down the outside of your clothes to discover weapons if they have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you may be armed. **rsa** suggested that cops use the drug dog as a scam - that is, they cue the dog to react. If this were so, then you’d expect to see a great many cases of false positives for that particular dog, and a savvy defense attorney ultimately discrediting alerts by that dog based on those many false positives. In addition, this conspiracy would require that the dog trainers and all the cops working with the dogs be in on this massive coverup. For these reasons, it’s unlikely that the police cue their dogs. The dogs are very well-trained, and can simply smell drugs. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please trot it out; in general, dog alerts are correctly regarded as a reliable indicator of the presence of drugs. **Tony Montana** relates the story of being stopped and checked. I’m not sure what reason the cops had, but if they had none, then it’s likely, had they actually found anything, it would have been suppressed as the fruits of an illegal search. In my experience, the vast majority of cops were honest. They would describe what the saw and what they did. Undoubtedly there are bad apples out there that would simply lie to create probable cause there there was none. In the end, however, it’s only a matter of time before that tactic gets them in trouble. I remember with particular pleasure disassembling one officer’s testimony about the reckless driving he witnessed, complete with smoke coming from the rear wheels of the car as it sped away. As it happened, the car was a front-wheel drive car. Case dismissed, and plenty of ammunition for the next defense attorney that ran across him… his career may not have ended as a result of that testimony, but his effectiveness as a Commonwealth witness was hurt. With cameras becoming standard in police cars, the opportunity for police to lie is getting smaller every day. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/65 "2003-01-31T20:09:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*If no one had called, perhaps those cops would have gone on to do something worse then shoot a dog \*\* Wow. So you’re saying we need to give the cops busywork because left on their own they’re dangerous? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/66 "2003-01-31T20:26:21Z")
Back in my semi-hippie days, I drove a day-glo yellow VW bus. I worked the night shift for a VW dealer in the SF Bay area and it was a rare week when I didn’t get pulled over on my way home at 2:00AM and have my bus searched for drugs. In spite of nothing ever being found, I was subjected to threats and given dire warnings about what would happen WHEN drugs were found in my van. Even after being dismissed by the cops, I was usually followed for a couple of miles before they got bored and left me alone. The cops always seemed baffled by the fact that a long haired guy with a yellow VW bus actually had a job and didn’t do drugs. I obviously didn’t fit their profile---- A very good friend of mine answered a knock on his door one night and was seized by his shirt front, hauled out of his house, thrown to the ground, and handcuffed by one cop while another knelt with a knee on the side of my friends head. His offense? His address is 1234 XXXX Street and the cops had received a 911 call reporting a beating at 1234 XXX Court. Did he get an apology? No. Never. I do not subscribe to the opinion that the cops are always the good guys—I give them respect (fear?) but I don’t blindly trust 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/67 "2003-01-31T20:35:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Give me a cite on this, as I’m not going to believe some “my mothers fifth cousin on my fathers side” bullshit. Well, you know, not everything is on the fucking internet. I can tell you that this happened in Grand Forks, North Dakota in the late 80’s. I heard most of the story from my wife, who I had only just met a few months after the incident. It’s been so long that i don’t know enough of the details to really search for it, and I don’t know if it would turn up in an internet archive anyway. I tried doing some searches of the Grand Foks Herald website, but couldn’t turn it up. (I don’t remember any names or dates). When I see my wife after work tonight, I’ll ask her for some more details so I can do a better search. All I can say for now is, it happened. I don’t post bogus anecdotes, but I can’t necessarily find an internet cite for everything either. I’ll do my best after I can talk to my wife. ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/68 "2003-01-31T20:46:33Z")
How about, Telemareting cops who drive SUV’s and use the “handicapped” stalls, I just hate those bastards. unclviny ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/69 "2003-01-31T20:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > **rsa** suggested that cops use the drug dog as a scam - that is, they cue the dog to react. Just to be clear, I was not suggesting that cops generally use drug dogs as a scam. When I said “every time I have seen this”, I was referring to every time that I have seen the video of the one specific incident that I described. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/70 "2003-01-31T21:23:21Z")
I con’t believe that nobody has pointed out that the cop in the OP was **on camera.** You don’t think have the camera man and a ‘producer’ in the car affect the way a cop would do his job? You don’t think that they talk about making it _dramatic_? You don’t think the cop is sitting there kind of hoping that something happens so he be on the TV? It’s that old uncertainty princepal. When you watch something, the act of watching affects the behavior. Of course if you had good community oversight of the police that may affect the behavior of ‘bad’ cops. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/71 "2003-01-31T22:34:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by unclviny \* > \*\*How about, > Telemareting cops who drive SUV’s and use the “handicapped” stalls, I just hate those bastards. > > unclviny \*\* Who smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Deadly\_Nightlight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/72 "2003-01-31T23:07:19Z")
I don’t hate the police, But I am scared of them- I used to get pulled over all the time, and the last time He made me get out search my car and my pockets and my purse, all because I didnot stop at a stop sign long enough. Now I will not go so far as to say that police are evil or anything But i sarn sure try to stay out of their way. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/73 "2003-02-01T00:01:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Well, you know, not everything is on the fucking internet. I can tell you that this happened in Grand Forks, North Dakota in the late 80’s. I heard most of the story from my wife, who I had only just met a few months after the incident. It’s been so long that i don’t know enough of the details to really search for it, and I don’t know if it would turn up in an internet archive anyway. I tried doing some searches of the Grand Foks Herald website, but couldn’t turn it up. (I don’t remember any names or dates). When I see my wife after work tonight, I’ll ask her for some more details so I can do a better search. All I can say for now is, it happened. I don’t post bogus anecdotes, but I can’t necessarily find an internet cite for everything either. I’ll do my best after I can talk to my wife. \*\* I’ll be waiting. Such a horrific act, there must be some record of it. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/74 "2003-02-01T00:10:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*I’ll be waiting. Such a horrific act, there must be some record of it. \*\* But it may not be linkable. There was a case recently of a Long Island officer who was pulling over women and sexually assualting/humilating them. He made one woman walk topless during the winter in front of his car for a while at night as her punishment. Policemen do commit crimes. It can be very difficult to get other policemen to investigate one of their coworkers and it is very intimidating to the victems. How could they trust one officer when another just violated that trust. Over all most of the police I’ve had personal expierence were very professional. If I’m getting a ticket I really don’t expect the officer to like Mr. Rogers. But then again I’ve never been searched or had my car taken apart. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/75 "2003-02-01T00:12:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Wow. So you’re saying we need to give the cops busywork because left on their own they’re dangerous? \*\* 😕 It was in response to the asinine statement from **Mr. Greg** > [@](#): > > \*\* > 2. Don’t ever try to help out the police because they don’t want it. Understand that it is a blue collar job (and I have a blue collar job) and the last thing they want is more work. Also it is really, really wrong to rat someone out such as what happened here in Cookeville TN and the dog shooting incident. So don’t call people in for speeding - just use defensive driving. If that “concerned motorist” had just minded her own fucking business, an innocent family would still have their pet and wouldn’t be permanently scarred\*\* Because someone called the police, a crime was uncovered so to speak. The crime wasn’t speeding but instead happened to be that these fucknut cops wear a uniform they shouldn’t. If no one had called, or brought light to the situation, such as **Mr. Greg** boneheadedly suggests, then perhaps these cops would have been involved in an incident far worse then shooting a dog. When and for what situations (a shootout vs. jaywalking) the police should be called is debatable, but what is clear, is never calling them because “they hate help and more work” is pretty fucking stupid. I will go ahead and assume that almost all criminals are caught because of a tip from someone. Make sense **Opal**? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/76 "2003-02-01T00:17:26Z")
Yes, cops commit crimes, there is no dispute there, I just think that it’s more of a minority then people think. Btw the problem really seems to be NYC cops. This reminds me of one of the first threads I ever read here, which was **JarbabyJ** talking about being afraid of cops, for no more reason then them simply being a cop. I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/77 "2003-02-01T00:45:46Z")
Only the victims really know… All peoples get away with what society allows them to get away with. Look not to the police but to the law makers… Most dogooders have not been victims… ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/78 "2003-02-01T00:55:37Z")
Thanks for the info **Qadgop** and **drachillix**. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/79 "2003-02-01T02:40:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > Cops that drive SUVs! Hey ours do, It’s a Ford Exploder or something or other (they have two, one is a drug seizure). During 4th of July or whenever the town is a little wild, they’ll pile in it 4 or 5 deep.(in addition to cops on bike,foot,& regular cruisers) When a fight breaks out or the bar crowd gets rowdy, they’ll pull up real fast like and jump out stormtrooper style. It’s quite a sight if your behind this behemoth chock full of Johnny-Bacon, when they slow to a crawl and all their shaved cop heads turn in unison to peer at the bar crowd… ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699/80 "2003-02-01T03:32:21Z")
I’m sure most police are honest people with good intentions who are disgusted that a small percentage of their fold are egregious examples of humanity and their profession but I am still afraid of police, in or out of uniform. I view them as unpredictable, unevenly enforcing laws and more concerned about their image as “good” public officials than actually living up to what their position represents to the community. The latter referring the stereotypical blue wall of silence. I’d sooner trust a thief because I _know_ he’s out to fuck me and rob me blind. With the police I do not know if they’re going to be stalwart and commendable defenders of truth, justice and the American way or out to get some kicks because they’re all pissed off that their wife is banging the neighbor. If the police were truly honest they would not need video cameras in their vehicle to document their every move. I’d actually believe that the honest police were honest if the dirty officers were publicly executed by other officers after a fair and just trial by a judge and jury which seems to be more than what most citizens receive when they are subject to happenstance, prejudiced judgements that could get thrown out of a court if only the testimony of a citizen bore as much weight as the testimony of an officer. Plus if your job is so shitty and downright dangerous, find a different line of work like basketweaving or an exciting career in IT. Otherwise don’t fucking gripe about your god damned job being so dangerous. You put yourself there, you can take yourself out. Plus being a police officer hardly seems to be a blue collar job with all the police officers I see applying for loans making at least four or five grand a month whether they are from Paw-Paw, West Virginia or Los Angeles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-rudeness-is-ok/151699.md?page=5)