# Cops shoot airman **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635 "2006-02-02T04:44:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/21 "2006-02-02T17:18:20Z")
The sound in the vid is a bit sketchy, but it seems like the after the shooting the cop is shouting “shut up” at the guy he shot. That really creeped me out, in a whole “shut up or I’ll give you something cry about” kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/22 "2006-02-02T17:47:54Z")
I saw this on the news this morning and wondered if the officer thought that the sound was turned off on his dash-cam. That way he could say that the man was trying to get up and was resisting without the audio to refute it. Even if you can’t hear the commands from the officer and compliance from the suspect, it’s still pretty damning. Based on what I have seen so far, I would say the officer belongs behind bars for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/23 "2006-02-02T18:04:21Z")
The worst part of the video for me is listening to the man moaning after being shot three time. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/24 "2006-02-02T18:28:56Z")
It has to make you wonder how often shit like this happens when there isn’t any video and when the victim isn’t a combat veteran of the military. Even the OP said he usually givesthe police the benefit of the doubt and I think public opinion bears that out. It’s sad that something has to be this unambiguous and clearly documented for people to believe that police officers would do things like this. If there’s any ambiguity at all, the tendency of the public is to assume that the victim had it coming. That’s often true even when there’s videotape. Maybe this case will force people to reconsider those assumptions in future cases. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/25 "2006-02-02T18:34:42Z")
> [@parthenokinesis](#): > > The sound in the vid is a bit sketchy, but it seems like the after the shooting the cop is shouting “shut up” at the guy he shot. That really creeped me out, in a whole “shut up or I’ll give you something cry about” kind of way. That was precisely my thought. The guy is moaning in agony, in the same manner I imagine most of us would after being shot three times, and the cop is yelling at him to shut up. Yeah, you’re a big fuckin’ man telling the guy you just shot to shut up while you’re holding a gun on him. As others have said, I also like to wait until I hear the whole story, and I’ll definitely eat my words if something comes out to clear this cop. But I watched the video on KTLA’s morning news three times the morning they released it, and twice now through the link provided in this thread, and it doesn’t get any less disturbing, nor has my opinion of what took place changed. Where’s Jack Bauer when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/26 "2006-02-02T18:34:43Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Saw the video on the news this morning. There is absolutely no question on the sequence of events. _Someone_ says, three times, “Get up”. It can be heard very clearly. Now, if that someone wasn’t the officer, why didn’t he reply, and say something like “No, don’t get up!” And when the airman finally says (again, very clearly), “OK, I’m getting up”, why didn’t the cop _then_ say, “No, don’t get up!” ??? > > The best spin an attorney for the officer could put on this (and I don’t believe it myself), is that the officer was so pumped up with adrenalin from the chase that we was temporarily insane. He was not thinking clearly and did not consciously register the “get up” exchange. And that’s _if_ he wasn’t the one talking. Frankly, I don’t believe it for a second. > > I think the cop was deliberately taunting the airman and just dying for an excuse to shoot him. I think he needs to be arrested for attempted murder and go to jail for a very, very long time. I think he’ll have to plead out to something. I don’t think he has any viable defense strategy available to him. When it’s this cut and dried, the only real option he has is to make a deal. He will go to jail but he won’t go for as long as he _should_ go (which is life, IMO. I don’t think attempted murder should be punished any differently than successful murder). ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/27 "2006-02-02T18:42:09Z")
Haven’t seen it yet but judging by the unanimity of the responses I don’t really need to. If happened as described, then the cop really has no legal defense other than insanity. I doubt this cop has done this before, but if there were people he shot before then they should reopen those cases. Looks like the airman is going to get a nice fat lawsuit, as well he should. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/28 "2006-02-02T18:44:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think he’ll have to plead out to something. I don’t think he has any viable defense strategy available to him. When it’s this cut and dried, the only real option he has is to make a deal. He will go to jail but he won’t go for as long as he _should_ go (which is life, IMO. **I don’t think attempted murder should be punished any differently than successful murder** ). Added bolding We do agree on that part for sure, and here I thought I wouldn’t be able to agree with you on anything. As for cop shootings, I have always wondered why there wasn’t a system in place to monitor officers better when drawing there weapon. Why not a gun cam thats activated when the weapon is pulled. If the officer knows they are always going to be monitored when using or even contemplating using lethal force, it will take more for them to draw there weapon. They spend millions installing red light cams etc. already, the added cost of this may not make them any money, but it would save them from tragedies such as this. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/29 "2006-02-02T18:45:25Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > I saw this on the news this morning and wondered if the officer thought that the sound was turned off on his dash-cam. That way he could say that the man was trying to get up and was resisting without the audio to refute it. In hindsight, they really never should have let [this guy](http://www.imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1056/21-426.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Palance,%20Jack&seq=18) onto the police force in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/30 "2006-02-02T18:55:50Z")
> [@zoogirl](#): > > The ambulance came, took away the cop that had been punched (broken finger) and left Kenny, still alive, on his mother’s floor. I don’t remember how long it took for another one to show up, but of course it was too late. By then Kenny was dead. I call bullshit on that. There’s no way an EMT crew would treat a broken finger before a gunshot victim. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/31 "2006-02-02T20:08:19Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Some of the text was blocked out in the link. Not that it’s relevant, but why were they being chased? That’s always the first question in my mind, too. Horrible, I know, but I grew up a cop’s daughter, so the first thing I think is “if they weren’t doing anything wrong, why were they running away?” The story I read said the driver has several priors and is expected in court for moving violations in March. He shouldn’t have even been behind the wheel, so he probably panicked, knowing that if he were pulled over, he’d be arrested. The airman’s wife said that if it had been her husband driving it never would have happened. More [here](http://ktla.trb.com/news/la-013106highspeed_lat,0,7630748.story?coll=ktla-news-1) > [@](#): > > As she awaited an update on her husband’s condition following his surgery, Mariela Carrion expressed her anger with Escobedo for allegedly speeding away from the deputy. > > Escobedo was due in San Bernardino County Superior Court on Thursday for a hearing following his March 2005 arrest for driving under the influence of alcohol and four other citations, including operating an unsafe vehicle. He served a year on probation and was fined $365 after pleading guilty to disturbing the peace following a speeding arrest in June 2003. > > Carrion’s wife said that if her husband had been driving, this never would have happened." My husband would never do that," Mariela Carrion said. “He drives like a turtle.” Regardless, Carrion did nothing to threaten that cop, and was only doing what he was told. I can’t imagine what prompted him to fire. Some people just shouldn’t have a badge. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/32 "2006-02-02T20:18:27Z")
After he was shot, Carrion began moaning and yelling loudly, to which the officer responded several times, “Shut the fuck up! Shut the fuck up!” The officer then said, “You don’t get up, motherfucker!” Carrion moaned, “You told me to get up!” That’s what I got out of the end of the vid. Anybody else interpret it that way as well? What a power-mad fuckstick. I hope he never sees the sun again. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/33 "2006-02-02T20:27:22Z")
Back when I was running kinda hard, I was a passenger in a car that ended up on the wrong end of a police chase, Took out a sign, a bush or three and was right at some ladies front porch when movement stopped. A solo new cop type kid sticks a cocked revolver in the drivers window and starts to SCREAM. “Don’t move or I’ll kill you.” “Get out of the car now.” “Don’t move or I’ll kill you.” “Get out of the car now.” “Don’t move or I’ll kill you.” “Get out of the car now.” “Don’t move or I’ll kill you.” “Get out of the car now.” “Don’t move or I’ll kill you.” “Get out of the car now.” Luckily the drive was so wasted that he just sat there and looked at the cop saying, "OK, " "OK, " "OK, " "OK, " "OK, " "OK, " In about a 60 second year, another police car showed up and an older officer gently moved the young cop back and got him calmed down. _Being on the wrong end of a cop getting his first baptism by fire is really a drag. Some of course are just looking for an excuse and add a lot of adrenaline and it can get really deadly. That is why I am always a bit amused when the critics on the balcony get all heretical and saintly with their, “I would” and the “They should have’s.” because they have not a clue. Training is a big help but nothing will ever totally cover what will / might happen when adrenaline is up and time stops or disappears and your own mortality is in your face._ The World is Round, It is Not Fair, It is Just Damn Round !!! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/34 "2006-02-02T20:32:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Training is a big help but nothing will ever totally cover what will / might happen when adrenaline is up and time stops or disappears and your own mortality is in your face. Sure, but this cop apparently shot the shit out of some guy without provocation of any sort. Adrenaline or not, he must pay. That’s just a matter of consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/35 "2006-02-02T20:42:51Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > That is why I am always a bit amused when the critics on the balcony get all heretical and saintly with their, “I would” and the “They should have’s.” because they have not a clue… And you can point that right back at yourself, bub. You have not a clue what I’ve seen. I was a paramedic in East Oakland and saw crap I hope never to see again. I’m a cops daughter & I’ve known cops and firemen and emergency personnel all my life. They all have said pretty much the same thing. Some people just do not have what it takes to be in that position. You’re right about one thing; the psych eval can only tell so much. The only real test is when you’re out there, doing the work. And if, when you’re out there doing the work, you flip out, then guess what? You don’t belong there. Too much can go wrong. The article clearly shows what happens when the wrong person is in that position. ---
**Author:** ![Yamirskoonir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/c0e974/32.png) [@Yamirskoonir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yamirskoonir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/36 "2006-02-02T21:38:24Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Tjhis looks pretty damn bad, but why is it relevant that the victim is in the military? I think it can be relevant. At least, it’s clear to me why the airman stated he was in the military: True story. Ex-boyfriend (AKA Fuckhead) was out doing some illegal street racing in Diamond Bar. He had a friend with him in the vehicle. The cops showed up, everybody scattered, and they tried to get away but picked up a cruiser. They tried to evade for maybe 5 blocks, and then pulled over. The law enforcement has been cracking down pretty strenuously on street racing out here in the IE, so there was no messing around: full on spotlight, bullhorn, “Step out of the vehicle and place your hands on the hood!” They did so, got patted down, and were asked for ID. Fuckhead presents his military ID (he’s army reserve). Cop looks at it, looks at him, spits on the gound, _throws_ the ID at Fuckhead and says: “The only reason I’m letting you off is because you boys are protecting our country!” Storms off. Fuckhead should have been arrested, had his vehicle impounded, and had his license revoked that night (again, they’re going zero-tolerance on street racing out here, even for first offense). But he got off because he was in the military. By extension, perhaps the airman thought that revealing he was in the military would calm down the cop (he’s not just some gangbanger who’s packing), and/or make the cop go easier on him. Given the heightened situation, it was probably the former. But I think it can be said that in general, there is a certain kinship or understanding/respect between the members of the military and those in law enforcement. The airman expected to be treated differently by the cop, however slightly, by revealing his military status. As for why the headlines are screaming HEARTLESS COP GUNS DOWN HELPLESS VET!!! – it makes the story ten times more sensational. Most of us really are just a bunch of sheep. And my two cents – it’s really, really fucked up that the cop shot him, and his story better be something like “my trigger finger slipped.” ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/37 "2006-02-02T21:44:23Z")
> [@Yamirskoonir](#): > > …his story better be something like “my trigger finger slipped.” Three times? :dubious: Even if his finger only “slipped” once, he should absolutely not be a cop. If you can’t hold a weapon and not have it go off unless you specifically intend for it to, you’ve got NO business with one. He can have a desk job. If a pen “slips”, no one usually dies. ---
**Author:** ![Yamirskoonir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/c0e974/32.png) [@Yamirskoonir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yamirskoonir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/38 "2006-02-02T21:46:41Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Three times? :dubious: > > Even if his finger only “slipped” once, he should absolutely not be a cop. If you can’t hold a weapon and not have it go off unless you specifically intend for it to, you’ve got NO business with one. He can have a desk job. If a pen “slips”, no one usually dies. Wow, I _must_ be tired…I missed the “three times” part every time I’ve heard this news story over the past few days. And I live nearby, so there’s a lot of buzz! ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/39 "2006-02-02T22:06:35Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > I saw this on the news this morning and wondered if the officer thought that the sound was turned off on his dash-cam. Nobody’s seen the dash-cam footage. > [@](#): > > KTLA-TV broadcast a 40-second clip it said came from a Chino resident who videotaped Sunday night’s shooting ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635/40 "2006-02-02T22:09:50Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Nobody’s seen the dash-cam footage. I wonder if there _is_ dash cam footage? If it’s even half as incriminating as the amateur video appears to be, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the PD to release it to the public. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shoot-airman/342635.md?page=3)