# Cops Shooting Locks **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078 "2008-12-07T01:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/21 "2008-12-07T15:38:06Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > The padlock may be strong, but isn’t the hinge it’s on pretty weak? I thought the usual method for busting through a door was a swift kick or a thrown shoulder… I would like to disrecommend using a shoulder to open anything other than a shower curtain. You will thank me for this advice. greatshakes ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/22 "2008-12-07T16:55:23Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Have you ever tried that on any door stronger than your average house internal door? I have, and it didn’t take very long to realize that it was way stronger than I was. TV != real life. The trick is to hit it in the middle. The door either breaks or bends. That will pull it away from the strike and it will open. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/23 "2008-12-07T17:05:43Z")
Yes, but the trope developed in the 1930s, when locks were not as sturdy as they are today. Many of those early locks were just thin sheet metal. It’s quite possible that it could have been done back then, but lock manufacturers started making better locks and the trope remained. A test on a modern lock would thus prove nothing (which is often the case with Mythbusters – they define their task in severely limited ways). ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/24 "2008-12-07T17:35:41Z")
Pins in the center screw hole of each hinge, striker plates and door frame long screwed into wall frame along both sides of door, padlock hasp pints come through door for lock to engage, no way to pry off attach hardware. Strongest door lock is old fashioned drop bar with string through door. Must have correct length and bends of wire to be able to fish loop back since you don’t know how it is attached to the drop bar. Now, if bad guy carries super thin TV eye on a controllable arm that can be inserted past the tube and can be reversed back to see where the string is located, then they don’t have to drive the bulldozer through the wall or blow it up. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/25 "2008-12-07T17:39:54Z")
> [@Thalion](#): > > Our Special Operations Team does have special shotgun rounds, made pretty much of powdered lead, that are great for blowing off locks and hinges. These are colloquially referred to as “Avon Rounds”, and the entry technique “Avon Lady” or “Avon Calling”. The FBI and LAPD SpecTac used to use solid slugs for this but overpenetration is a serious concern, whereas powered lead has a lethal range of only a few feet. > [@DanBlather](#): > > Or of course you could use one of those compressed air gizmos like Chigurh. This would not work for reasons obvious to a high school physics student. > [@mwbrooks](#): > > I’ve been told an average padlock will yield to a sledgehammer blow if you get the angle just right. The one time I’ve seen it tried, either the angle wasn’t right or the padlock was above average. > > I’ve seen two solid front doors that had been kicked in by burglars. In both cases the door was pretty much undamaged; it was the frame that gave in. It’s not usually the padlock but rather the hasp that gives way. Similarly, it is typically the frame that will give way on a solid core door. > [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > The trick is to hit it in the middle. The door either breaks or bends. That will pull it away from the strike and it will open. Kicking a hollow core door in the middle is a great way to get your foot stuck in a hole and give up the element of surprise while you’re trying to pull the door apart. I guarantee that you are not going to break a solid core door down the middle unless there is a pre-existing flaw in the door; you’ll break the frame or hinges first. In dynamic entry scenarios (such as trying to pacify one more more hostage-takers who cannot be neutralized by sniping) the entry force will often ignore doors or windows and use linear shaped charge to blow a hole through the wall, especially interior drywood walls; it’s generally faster and you have less chance of getting caught up or giving up initiative. Anyone who has seen one of the exercises can testify to how fast they’re over, almost in the blink of an eye. The few seconds you might piss away pulling a door out of the way can give a perpetrator time to kill a hostage or aim and fire at entry forces. Surprise and disorientation are key to a successful dynamic entry and hostage recovery. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/26 "2008-12-07T18:58:05Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Or of course you could use one of those compressed air gizmos like Chigurh. I want one of those things; can you give me a source? ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/27 "2008-12-07T18:58:42Z")
So essentially, law enforcement does not pull out a pistol and shoot at a padlock as a means of entry. Assuming they’re in a building and it would take too long to run back to their car and get a prybar, ram, or another entry device, what other options do they have? I’m curious how often law enforcement personnel have actually used or attempted to use a handgun to blast a padlock 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/28 "2008-12-07T19:00:07Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I want one of those things; can you give me a source? Not a source, but info on it: [Captive bolt pistol - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_pistol) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/29 "2008-12-07T20:07:47Z")
> [@SeanArenas](#): > > Assuming they’re in a building and it would take too long to run back to their car and get a prybar, ram, or another entry device, what other options do they have? I’m curious how often law enforcement personnel have actually used or attempted to use a handgun to blast a padlock 🙂 It would be rare than an officer responding to a typical call would attempt a barricade entry; besides being very hazardous to the officer and prone to error it also incurs a lot of liability for a patrolman (PO I, II, III in LAPD rank structure) to make that kind of call; in any scenario I can think up the patrol officer would be required to call the precinct shift supervisor or watch commander or adjutant thereto (all sergeants) for instructions and backup. In any kind of a hostage or potential hostage scenario the officer will almost certainly be told to hold position and wait for a response team to arrive on site, and actual tactical decisions will probably move up to a Police Lieutenant or higher level. The stuff you see in movies where a couple of lone detectives bust in and clear a house is, if not utter nonsense, at least not accepted and approved practice. The first rule of police work is “Go home at the end of your shift.” Going Dirty Harry is not conducive to that goal. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/30 "2008-12-07T22:23:47Z")
I have no experience on American doors or locks but I can tell that Scandi doors, interior or not, are way too sturdy to just kick /shoulder through. Interior: 1.75" of solid pine, with hinges mounted on 1/8" steel plating imbedded into the frames with a bunch of big-ass screws. Also, I’d like to see anyone try to shoot through an good old Abloy padlock sporting a cylindrical cast brass housing with 8 mm wall thickness. Ricochet time! ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/31 "2008-12-07T22:27:10Z")
The [theboxotruth.com](http://theboxotruth.com) was interesting. I have a question, why did they shoot the lock. Why not shoot the metal “U” part that holds it? Is it to small (thin) to aim for accurately. I guess TV dramas use the lock shot off so that it won’t work in real life if someone tries it ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/32 "2008-12-08T01:06:35Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > The [theboxotruth.com](http://theboxotruth.com) was interesting. I have a question, why did they shoot the lock. Why not shoot the metal “U” part that holds it? > > Is it to small (thin) to aim for accurately. The shackle on a quality padlock is made of hardened steel. A pistol round might deform it but I doubt it would significantly damage it. You would be better off attacking the hasp (the catch that the shackle goes through) or the hinges on the door. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/33 "2008-12-08T01:15:41Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > If you happen to have a Terminator, or have recently been issued a Burn Notice, you ignore the door and go through the adjacent wall. As a Californian, I _do_ have a Governator. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/34 "2008-12-08T11:17:27Z")
Generally if there is going to be some sort of dynamic entry a ram would be used. Most of the times I have had to get into a house it is for a nontactical reason. Most typically because someone is possibly sick or injured inside. And since most of _those_ calls tend to be false alarms we try to find someway in that won’t cause damage. If there is no other recourse I would probably use a [Halligan Bar.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halligan_bar) ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/35 "2008-12-08T17:35:17Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If there is no other recourse I would probably use a [Halligan Bar.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halligan_bar) Tool of champions. The leverage aspect alone is just awesome. If there’s even a small crevice you can get one of these in it. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/36 "2008-12-08T17:40:47Z")
Many of the properties in my town have “fire boxes”–little locked boxes on the outside that hold all the keys to the inside. The fire and police departments have the master key to these fire boxes, to be used in case of an emergency. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/37 "2008-12-09T00:26:58Z")
I see a lot of answers like Halligan Bar (which is very cool), battering ram, radio for information, etc. In the situations that happen on TV (which must, at least occasionally, happen in real life), the person doesn’t have these tools and options available. No radio on their person to call and ask for advice. All they have is their clothes and a gun in their hand, they’re 300 yards down a tunnel underground, there’s twists and turns, they would probably get lost on their way back. There’s no cell phone reception. Opening the door in the next 1-2 minutes is crucial (to save a life/stop a bomb from going off/etc.). The agent looks at the solid gate and chain and padlock and realizes that slamming into it repeatedly with their body weight won’t open it. They don’t have any tools - there’s just hundreds of yards of empty corridor behind them, and this gate in front of them, locked with a chain and a padlock. And this gun. In their hand. On TV, they draw the gun and fire. In real life, they … don’t save the day because shooting at a lock is dangerous? Or, they do something else crafty that I’m not thinking about? I doubt they’d swing the butt of their handgun against the padlock, but can’t think of much else to try. Maybe firing it at the hinges (or where they’d be if it’s a door) to blast a hinge off the door? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078/38 "2008-12-09T00:41:30Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Yes, but the trope developed in the 1930s, when locks were not as sturdy as they are today. Many of those early locks were just thin sheet metal. I believe a good many of them were also [mortise locks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortise_lock), which leave behind precious little wood and, it seems to me (comment on the linked page notwithstanding), would make a door a lot easier to kick in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cops-shooting-locks/476078.md?page=1)