Denizens of the Dope’
I apologize for my lengthy absence, My internet connection went down shortly after my most recent post, true not something I had much control over, none the less I regret the inconvenience.
Zuer-coli
Fellow Denizens of the Dope,
As I posted most recently I was without an Internet connection for a number of days, although it was not within my power to correct that situation, I wish to express my regret for the extended silence on my behalf.
Oh my, such a wealth of responses, thanks to all who took the time to respond.
At this time I do not have copies of the original work. I want to have the originals for reference.
In the matter of use of neutral personal pronouns, as much as possible when the gender of the person is unknown or is irreverent, I will use a neutral personal pronoun. In the case of persons whose gender is known, I will use the appropriate pronoun. As a side note: I am still in search of a satisfactory neutral substitute for Sir, Mam as in Madame, Mr. and Mrs. I plan to start a separate thread about this later.
In the matter of whether or not an explanation of the usage is or it not appropriate, in the use of a neologism, which was noted, thank you, a brief mention of the usage is a courtesy to those who may not be familiar.
I for myself do not intend to comment on the issue of whether or not a privately promulgated standard including Building Codes, herein after Standard, said Standard having been copy written by the organization that published it, and then is adopted (in to law) by reference, perhaps there by coming in to the public domain. I direct you to the links provided by Acsenim and Expano Mapcase.
For those of you who my be interested, here is a link to the International Code Council’s public access: http://codes.iccsafe.org/public/help#publicaccess.
When I wrote this as a first draft, I devoted considerable space to the way in which Indiana goes about adopting a Standard, I now think that if you are really interested in the process, I will provide links via PM, warning: it is all in government speak, repetitious and very dry reading.
The short version is; Indiana adopts it’s building codes by reference, all such codes are copy written by their publisher. To the extent I may have included copy written material, I will be in violation of copyright.
In addition to the plumbing reference, I worked on a second project. That project had the goal of teaching people how to draw Plumbers Isometrics.
The first draft also had a long section about that subject but I think I will forbear as that is a subject most of you would not have to have a strong desire to peruse.
I did mention plagiarism, it’s that project that I was thinking of. The person who I would be plagiarizing would be myself, that is, depending on whether or not the City has copyright. As it happens the current City Attorney and I collaborated in re-writing the City’s Plumbing Ordinance back in the day, so I don’t regard an inquiry as such a dreadful prospect as some few of respondents seem to think it might be.
I hope that in declining to respond to some issues, I have not given offense.
I am aware that the gender designation / preferred pronoun issue is a sensitive one for many, it’s not my intent to offend anyone.
Be that as it may, you can’t please ‘em all.
Again I wish to extend my thanks for all the replies.
Zuer-coli (I think that now when I have acquired some more life experience, I would chose a different user name, Perhaps; The periphrastic1! Other, more sedate suggestions welcome!)
If your guide was written in the same prose as your posts, I don’t think you’ll find a huge market anyway. 
Yeah,
I don’t write too good, seriously I think It’s 'cause it’s the dope, can’t quite explain it but it’s as if the dope brings out my worst writing! It’s also one of the reasons I don’t post very often.
Thanks for the critical input, it’s useful.
Zuer-coli
A small point, but an important one.
It’s not copywrite, but copyright, i.e. the right to copy.
Fellow Denizens of the Dope,
Note to the Moderators: In response to Really Not That Bright and Expano Mapcase, I have re-written my post No. 42. I don’t recall a board rule that would prohibit this, if I am wrong, well if there is some consequence, I am still somewhat of a child in a 63 year old body. Thanks to Really Not That Bright and Expano Mapcase for their gentle critique.
As I posted most recently I was without an Internet connection for a number of days, although it was not within my power to correct that situation, I wish to express my regret for the extended silence on my behalf.
Oh my, such a wealth of responses, thanks to all who took the time to respond.
I do not have copies of the original work. I want to have the originals for reference.
The World changes and I can’t keep up. I think that using neutral personal pronouns is appropriate when you don’t know the gender of the person. It was a new idea that a neutral pronoun would also be appropriate when the gender of the personal is irreverent. I think that there are enough people that are unfamiliar with the term that a brief explanation is also appropriate,
I don’t think that I can add anything to the discussion about copy written standards including Building Codes coming into the public domain by virtue of being adopted by reference. I direct you to the links provided by Acsenim and Expano Mapcase.
For those of you who may be interested, here is a link to the International Code Council’s public access site: http://codes.iccsafe.org/public/help#publicaccess.
For anyone who might be interested in the way Indiana goes about adopting codes and standards I will provide links via PM, warning: it is all in government speak, very dry reading.
The short version is; Indiana adopts it’s building codes by reference. Indiana uses the International Code council codes and ICC copyrights all their publications, I heavily based my reference on the ICC <year> Plumbing Code, I think that I am in violation of ICC’s copyright.
In addition to the plumbing reference, I worked on a second project that had the goal of teaching people how to draw Plumbers Isometrics.
When I mentioned plagiarism, I was thinking of that project. If the City does have copyright, then I would be plagiarizing my own work. As it happens the current City Attorney and I collaborated in re-writing the City’s Plumbing Ordinance back in the day, so I don’t regard an inquiry as such a dreadful prospect as some few of respondents seem to think it might be. I regret that I did not make that clear.
I hope that in declining to respond to some issues, I have not given offense.
I am aware that the gender designation / preferred pronoun issue is a sensitive one for many, it’s not my intent to offend anyone.
Be that as it may, you can’t please ‘em all.
Again I wish to extend my thanks for all the replies.
Zuer-coli
OK, so two projects, two issues.
You say that the Code is copyright by ICC. You still haven’t said whether you quote it directly or just comment on it. Nor whether if you do quote it, the amount is within the guidelines of fair use. (There is no set number or percentage of use that is fair. Educational use is usually allowed a fair amount of leeway. But there is never a good way for outsiders to know what is allowable in a specialized situation like this.) What you probably need is permission. They can tell you to go ahead, or ask you to buy a license, or whatever. But somebody needs to look at the actual work product to figure this out.
It’s not at all clear what’s going on with the Plumbers Isometrics. You don’t say whether any part of the project involves somebody else’s copyright, or whether the city or anyone needs to give permission. Nobody legally is going to care at all about plagiarism. There are either legal barriers or there aren’t. We don’t have enough information. Talk to the city. Or a lawyer.
Expand Macase,
What I did in the first project was use the second chapter, ICC (year) Plumbing Code, that chaper is just definitions: stack vent and vent stack are different things, waste or soil stack yet another. I venture to say that the way that a plumber uses the word stack is not fimilaur to most folk.
So I took all the definitions in the code and used the word or phrase being defined as the basis for my reference. I did not use the definitions in the code
As has been pointed out, it wold be dofficult indeed not to use some parts of the code. I dfiniatly relied hevaly on those definitions. I also used another publiciation of the ICC, their Plumbing Code and Commantary for the same year as the code I used. These commantarys (sp?) go into much greater depth than the code without them.
If as you suggest this might be fair useage, well and good. However your suggestion about seaking permission is a very good one.
As for the project about helping people to learn how to draw Isometrics, that is entirely my own work. I taught myself how to draw this type of drawings by looking at various Isometric drawings. Later I realized that while most plumbers can read them, most folks have to be taught how to draw a Plumbing Isometric.
I’m not claiming originality, on the other hand I have not been able to find any sort of text. So I wrote my own.
Zuer-coli
If you wrote your own, then it’s original. In copyright law, “original” merely means “not copied from something else.”
“Original” doesn’t mean “never existed before.” That’s a requirement for patent law, which uses the term “novel.”
I don’t know the legal issues you will face around copyright, but I think you can ignore plagiarism. You wrote the first version, and you can’t really plagiarize yourself. But more importantly, plagiarism isn’t illegal. It’s just frowned on in certain circumstances. For instance, if you claim to have written a poem, or to be a scholar who came up with a new idea, and it turns out you copied someone else – that’s bad. You should suffer reputational damage, and if you are a university scholar you might lose your job. But that’s not what you are doing. You are trying to take standard ideas and make them accessible. You would be valued for clear writing, not for originality.
Even so, it is good form to credit anyone whose ideas you are using. (“this chapter was adapted from my previous book, xyzpdq…”, “this section was inspired by the ideas my colleague, jane smith, suggested in pdqxyz, which we co-authored” Or, you know, someone else if you steal ideas from someone other than yourself and your prior collaborators.) But I don’t think you need to sweat about that, especially since you are mostly re-using stuff that you, yourself, wrote.
Acsenray, Thank you for the clarification re, The usage of originality vs novel, that was very informative.
Puzzlegal, Thank you for the elaboration to the most recent post by Acsenray. Alas, I do not recall the various places where I encountered Plumbing Isometric drawings.
Zuer-coli
Another thing to consider is to write your own ‘code’, say, the Zuer-Coli Plumbing Rules for the Everyday Homeowner. You might want to include disclaimers that while your “rules” are not a replacement for carefully crafted and adopted code, they are intended to assist the homeowner in understanding the daunting complexities of the codes and how prevent homeowners from making potentially dangerous mistakes while maintaining their plumbing systems.
An up date, I spoke to our City Attorney today, as I might have expected he wants to review the material and do some research on copyright before giving an opinion. So it’s back to trying to get copies or just re-write from scratch. It would useful to have the originals available but it shouldn’t be necessary.
I think that re-writing from scratch is how I will proceed.
I would again like to express my thank’s to all for their participation.
Zuer-coli