# Copyright for translations of public domain documents **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315 "2010-05-04T18:33:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315/1 "2010-05-04T18:33:01Z")
How are copyright issues handled for translations of works in public domain? I’m studying a bunch of 1st and 2nd century stuff right now (originally written in Greek and Latin, translated to modern English) and it got me wondering. I can understand that with poetry or other types of stylized literature there can be, and often are, great differences in translation. But I’ve noticed that with simpler prose (like histories and epistles) there are few differences between some translations. I can imagine two independent scholars writing remarkably similar translations without referencing each other, especially of some short, straightforward works. Is this even an issue? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315/2 "2010-05-05T01:51:46Z")
U.S. copyright law protects only _expression_, not facts. So a translation of a list of colors or ordinal numbers from German to English is probably not protectable. A new translation of _The Aeneid_ or even the Bible certainly would be, because the exact words chosen to convey a thought in another language are expression. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315/3 "2010-05-05T01:59:20Z")
Yes, it’s an issue. A translation of a creative work of expression is most likely a creative work of expression protected by copyright law. By the way, two creative works can be substantially similar without necessarily being infringing, so long as there is no actual copying. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315/4 "2010-05-05T09:08:11Z")
This is also the case for music: for example, our choir is singing the Vivaldi Gloria (RV 589). The music is out of copyright, but the specific published score we are using is copyright to the publisher. If I transcribed it into my computer, I would be breaking copyright. But if I got hold of a copy from much earlier that was out of copyright, I would be creating my own work that was not infringing from the public domain. It does not matter that the results would end up identical, one infringes the publishers copyright, the other does not. A similar situation applies to translations - the source is in the public domain, but any specific published translation is under the publishers copyright - no matter how similar it is to another. Si ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315/5 "2010-05-05T14:43:18Z")
This applies to current books as well. I’ve had my books published in numerous languages and the translations are always copyrighted separately to their translators. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315/6 "2010-05-05T22:35:45Z")
> [@si\_blakely](#): > > This is also the case for music: for example, our choir is singing the Vivaldi Gloria (RV 589). The music is out of copyright, but the specific published score we are using is copyright to the publisher. If I transcribed it into my computer, I would be breaking copyright. But if I got hold of a copy from much earlier that was out of copyright, I would be creating my own work that was not infringing from the public domain. It does not matter that the results would end up identical, one infringes the publishers copyright, the other does not. > > A similar situation applies to translations - the source is in the public domain, but any specific published translation is under the publishers copyright - no matter how similar it is to another. > > Si While this is true, how does one prove that they arrived at the same data independently? Isn’t that precisely the reason used for certain stuff not being copyrightable? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-for-translations-of-public-domain-documents/538315/7 "2010-05-05T22:45:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > While this is true, how does one prove that they arrived at the same data independently? As we say in the legal profession, “That is merely a question of fact.” > [@](#): > > Isn’t that precisely the reason used for certain stuff not being copyrightable? No, most of the things that are not copyrightable are things that aren’t sufficiently creative.