# Copyright Issues with Fan Fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 17, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959 "2011-10-17T21:11:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/21 "2011-10-18T08:46:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Same thing with plots. If your story is about how the ship is overrun with a bunch of small fast breeding furry vermin, they can make the argument that you stole their story about tribbles. But if it’s a general story about the crew of a starship, the makers of _Star Trek_ can’t claim they invented that idea. Actually there was some discussion about whether or not the tribbles were ripped off of [The Rolling Stones](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rolling_Stones_%28novel%29) by RAH. Martian [Flat Cats](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_cat) were purry little martian critters that were born pregnant. > [@](#): > > Heinlein’s flat cats are often said to have been the inspiration for _[The Trouble with Tribbles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trouble_with_Tribbles)_, an episode of the _[Star Trek](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek)_ television series. (Heinlein himself said he may have gotten the idea from the 1905 story _[Pigs is Pigs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigs_is_Pigs)_ by [Ellis Parker Butler](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Parker_Butler).) [David Gerrold](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gerrold), the author of the _Star Trek_ episode, claims that he had read the Heinlein book years before writing his screenplay, and was not consciously aware of the similarities, until a routine studio clearances review prompted a contact with Heinlein who, graciously, admitted the similarities but also waived all rights.[URL=“[The Rolling Stones (novel) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_cat#cite_note-1)”] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/22 "2011-10-18T09:09:18Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Fanfic doesn’t usually borrow dialog or plot straight from the source material. However, the hypothetical work described in the OP explicitly does. ---
**Author:** ![Hogfather65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hogfather65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogfather65)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/23 "2011-10-18T10:09:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > IANAL but my understanding is that what will get you in trouble is copying the parts of some other work that were unique to that work. > > For example, let’s say you write a book about a starship crew and the crew members are named Kirk and Spock and McCoy. You’re going to get sued because the people who own the rights to _Star Trek_ will easily be able to show that those are the names of their characters. > > But suppose you change the names to Cook and Zonk and Magill. Now the _Star Trek_ people have to show you copied their characters. If Zonk is an emotionless science officer with pointed ears, they might be able to make a case. But if Zonk is an alien, they won’t because they didn’t invent the idea of aliens so aliens weren’t unique to _Star Trek_. > > Same thing with plots. If your story is about how the ship is overrun with a bunch of small fast breeding furry vermin, they can make the argument that you stole their story about tribbles. But if it’s a general story about the crew of a starship, the makers of _Star Trek_ can’t claim they invented that idea. Galaxy Quest ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/24 "2011-10-18T10:18:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Same thing with plots. If your story is about how the ship is overrun with a bunch of small fast breeding furry vermin, they can make the argument that you stole their story about tribbles. As if rats have never been a problem on ships in real life? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/25 "2011-10-18T10:49:51Z")
Flatcats and tribbles were not just fast breeding purring appetites, they were also originally valued as cute pets. Even regular Terrestrial cats will overrun the food supply in very short order, if they are allowed to breed as they will (see also Tuf Voyaging, by George RR Martin). So yeah, while rats have always been a problem on ships, the flatcats/tribbles are more closely modeled on cats, not rats, even though the reproduction rate is closer to rats than cats. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/26 "2011-10-18T12:52:54Z")
> [@Hogfather65](#): > > Galaxy Quest While a funny comeback, there’s actually (at least in USA law) protection specifically for criticism or parody, and I have a strong feeling that Galaxy Quest would fall under those if it were challenged. However, just looking at it, there’s enough differences between Galaxy Quest and the various incarnations of Star Trek to make it stand on its own even without parody protection - it’s OBVIOUS to people who are fans of that genre that it’s a parody, but nothing specific to Star Trek was stolen - they created their own ship, their own “cute kid actor,” their own funny-forehead aliens with strange hangups, and especially important - created all their own catchphrases. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/27 "2011-10-18T13:14:15Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > There’s a difference between recycling your own ideas, and copying someone else’s ideas. As I noted before, ideas are not protected by copyright law. You can have the same general plot. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/28 "2011-10-18T13:28:57Z")
Don Kingsbury wrote a very fine novel (Psychohistorical Crisis) based on Asimov’s Foundation universe. But he changed all the names. Trantor became Splendid Wisdom and Hari Seldon became The Philosopher. There was one race called The Frightful People (singular, Frightful Person), although there was nothing that suggested why. He told me he did this to avoid copyright hassles, but felt he was otherwise free to use Asimov’s universe. One curious thing I did notice was that he seemed to have copies Asimov’s timeline verbatim. IMHO, Kingsbury is a better writer than Asimov (but Asimov had all the great ideas). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/29 "2011-10-18T14:06:26Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > While a funny comeback, there’s actually (at least in USA law) protection specifically for criticism or parody, and I have a strong feeling that Galaxy Quest would fall under those if it were challenged. > > However, just looking at it, there’s enough differences between Galaxy Quest and the various incarnations of Star Trek to make it stand on its own even without parody protection … Most importantly, the plot of Galaxy Quest is about a group of actors who made a TV show about travelling in space. The characters are loosely based on Shatner and Nimoy, not Kirk and Spock. If you actually tried making a show with a character based on Kirk, and a character based on Spock, you would certainly run into copyright difficulties, even if you gave them different names and catchphrases. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/30 "2011-10-18T15:04:29Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > However, the hypothetical work described in the OP explicitly does. You’re absolutely right, I missed that sentence. In that case, it’s going to depend on how traceable the dialog is to the source. It’s going to be tough to prove that a character who likes to say, “You have got to be kidding me!” is from one specific work or another. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/31 "2011-10-18T18:42:33Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > If you actually tried making a show with a character based on Kirk, and a character based on Spock, you would certainly run into copyright difficulties, even if you gave them different names and catchphrases. Nothing certain about it, especially since Kirk was based upon Horatio Hornblower (Roddenberry has admitted this). The similarities would be noted, but it’s not necessarily copyright infringement, especially if the story was original. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/32 "2011-10-18T19:28:35Z")
Haha wow so much information! You guys are the best. I really don’t plan on getting anything published. I’ve never written a book before, and I’m more or less using this fan fiction as a way of cutting my teeth, so to speak, on the process. If I am really happy with the way it came out and people genuinely think I have a talent for writing, I’ll probably try to create my own book. My fan fiction is actually more of a fleshed out novelization of the game itself, so there’s really no way I could get away with publishing it without permission from the game publisher. My inspiration was to make the story from the game more accessible, explore the character’s thoughts and motivations, and to work out some of the details that were glossed over in the actual game. I wanted basically anyone to be able to pick up my story and read it from cover to cover without having to have played the game, and still be able to enjoy it. So I guess fan fiction isn’t really the best term for it; I guess it’s more of a novelization. That being said, if people really do like it and think it’s worth something, maybe I will try to contact the game publisher/developer and see what their policy is. It certainly wouldn’t hurt to ask, right? Thanks for all the info though! Copyright law is very intricate and amazing, and I know a lot of it is just decided on a case by case basis. It’s interesting to learn about how so many people have borrowed from existing ideas and characters and turned them into their own. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/33 "2011-10-18T19:48:34Z")
Do you mind telling us what game it is? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959/34 "2011-10-18T21:02:05Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Do you mind telling us what game it is? Sure no problem. It’s basically a retelling of the main plots and events of Phantasy Star IV, with a little bit of before and after as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/copyright-issues-with-fan-fiction/599959.md?page=1)