# Corbyn is screwed **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 10, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197 "2015-10-10T21:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/61 "2015-10-13T11:47:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I still maintain that it will be better for Labour to have elected Corbyn, go through a period of massive upheaval and come out the other side with a leaner and more focused party (under someone else) than to have elected one of the other three empty suits who would have done nothing, opposed nothing, and lost badly at the next election. > > Or they could put so much energy into infighting that they completely bork the party and lose the next election anyway. But at least now there’s a chance for change, however small. I think like the markets, you occasionally need a large readjustment; the trouble with Blair and the ‘third way’ was it drove the political spectrum in the UK to the right, with what was the traditional left falling off the scale altogether. That’s fine while you’re winning but it’s mighty ugly when you lose - because you’ve driven your opposition still further to the right . All that’s happening now is the grassroots have a voice in forming and shaping a new political spectrum, and Osboune really doesn’t want to be seen to be too near the right edge. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/62 "2015-10-13T11:56:36Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I still maintain that it will be better for Labour to have elected Corbyn, go through a period of massive upheaval and come out the other side with a leaner and more focused party (under someone else) than to have elected one of the other three empty suits who would have done nothing, opposed nothing, and lost badly at the next election. I suspect you are right, And…wait a second, is that the glint of a new sun off some knight in shining armour? Someone that has stayed out of the political maelstrom for the last 5 years and is relatively untainted by failure and holds greater mass appeal to the voters? Perhaps it is, perhaps the other Mr. Miliband might fancy a comeback? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/63 "2015-10-13T12:01:58Z")
Oh he fancies it. My gambit from several months ago was he’d parachute into Sadiq Khan’s seat but that won’t work now. Atm, either some of Corbyn’s first choices step up really very soon or there will be places, and he’s run out of old skool lefties already. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/64 "2015-10-13T15:01:12Z")
There’s a [detailed account](http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/13/how-labour-went-to-war-with-itself-over-the-economy) of Monday’s disastrous PLP meeting and the aftermath in the Guardian now. The details are interesting and the comments from MPs are diagnostic - as how could they not be - of Corbyn’s challenges, but I share it for this masterful piece of stiletto work: > [@](#): > > “A shadow chancellor’s fiscal stance is fundamental to credibility and trust. This kind of chaos less than a month into the job is the kind of blow even significant political figures struggle to recover from.” “\*Even \*significant political figures”. As fine an example of venomous condescension as you will find anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/65 "2015-10-13T16:14:27Z")
From that piece in the Guardian - _ **The problem is that Jeremy has never met anyone in his life that disagrees with him** and he runs away from any discussion or political argument; he is completely unsuited to being a party leader_ A life spent in the echo-chamber of protest ‘politics’ is poor schooling for the real thing - the art of the possible. There’s some satisfaction to be had, mind you, in seeing Corbyn telling the entire parliamentary labour party to do one, but I think we’ve all seen and heard that joke by now. I’m all for the idea of a messy, fiery conflagration of ideologies leading to a labour rebirth; but for that to happen he needs to at least be in the job for the short - medium term. He won’t last till Christmas at this rate. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/66 "2015-10-13T17:38:45Z")
Well, he won by a landslide so the Blairite PLP people can stop throwing the toys around. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/67 "2015-10-13T19:18:27Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > As it is, the person who is going to do most damage to the cause of leftwing politics in the UK over the next 5 years is Jeremy Corbyn because while his heart is in the right place, he is constitutionally unable - because of who he is as much as who he has met - to turn his principles into the policies of an electable party. Labour weren’t electable anyway. I’m seeing a lot of blindness about austerity, as if it’s a minority concern. I can only assume such people live in the south east. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/68 "2015-10-13T19:19:29Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > There’s a [detailed account](http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/13/how-labour-went-to-war-with-itself-over-the-economy) of Monday’s disastrous PLP meeting and the aftermath in the Guardian now. Fuck the Guardian. That needs a Corbynite shake up too. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/69 "2015-10-14T00:10:53Z")
> [@The Guardian](#): > > Gapes responded: "I will show loyalty in the same way as he was loyal to Kinnock, Smith, Blair, Brown, Beckett, milo and and Harman. OK? Ouch! Forget the Telegraph article. If he’s got MP’s willing to post that against him on Twitter, he’s doomed. In a parliamentary system, the backbenchers don’t criticise the leader that way in public - unless they’ve already calculated that the leader doesn’t have support from the MP’s and won’t be leader much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/70 "2015-10-14T00:13:15Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Well, he won by a landslide so the Blairite PLP people can stop throwing the toys around. Why? They’re MP’s, also elected by the people, and they can do whatever they want to knife him if they think that’s best for the Party in the long run. The result of the leadership vote doesn’t bind the MP’s to spurious loyalty, if they don’t think he really has the support. Think Howe and Heseltine for the classic example. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/71 "2015-10-14T06:06:25Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why? They’re MP’s, also elected by the people, and they can do whatever they want to knife him if they think that’s best for the Party in the long run. The result of the leadership vote doesn’t bind the MP’s to spurious loyalty, if they don’t think he really has the support. > > Think Howe and Heseltine for the classic example. But many MPs will be wondering if they have an untapped source of support now. Could end up with more left wingers. There’s real volatility in the electorate - Galloway’s big win, UKIP, SNP. Would it be fair to say that the financial crisis has had it’s long awaited polarising and fragmenting effect ? Any by-elections due soon ? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/72 "2015-10-14T08:37:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why? They’re MP’s, also elected by the people, and they can do whatever they want to knife him if they think that’s best for the Party in the long run. The result of the leadership vote doesn’t bind the MP’s to spurious loyalty, if they don’t think he really has the support. > > Think Howe and Heseltine for the classic example. Corbyn is content for members of his Cabinet to have different views; he claims to want to achieve consensus by debating the issues. There is no ‘disloyalty’ no ignoring the Whip no “knifing”. Whether it all works out is another matter. But he has the mandate to pursue this for some while yet ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/73 "2015-10-14T08:46:49Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But many MPs will be wondering if they have an untapped source of support now. Could end up with more left wingers. There’s real volatility in the electorate - Galloway’s big win, UKIP, SNP. Would it be fair to say that the financial crisis has had it’s long awaited polarising and fragmenting effect ? Any by-elections due soon ? Galloway’s big win? He lost his seat to Naz Shah - one of the few big Labour wins. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/74 "2015-10-14T08:54:44Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Labour weren’t electable anyway. > I’m seeing a lot of blindness about austerity, as if it’s a minority concern. I can only assume such people live in the south east. If you think that austerity is a major concern (and it is) then you must be pretty furious that Corbyn is making such a ham-fisted mess of leading his party in the fight against it. A weak Labour Opposition means the Tory Government gets to do what it wants. _They have a majority of just 12_ and as austerity bites there will be an increasing number of Tory MPs who entertain doubts about the wisdom of these cuts. But that potential to influence policy and even defeat government bills will be squandered if Corbyn can’t lead an effective opposition. We’ve seen a perfect illustration of the problems this week: The Sun - _the Sun!_ - is running a campaign against Tory cuts to tax credits and yet somehow the big story relating to austerity, fiscal responsibility and government spending is an inept and confusing U-turn by the Labour Chancellor which denies him and the party any credit for the principled position they finally adopted and which put the focus firmly on spin, tactics and process issues. This was Labour’s chance to reclaim the “party of the working class” mantle that Osborne is working so hard to steal from them, and they shat the bed. It’s a disgrace. Claiming to be oh so concerned with austerity while shrugging off as minor issues the ability to kick the Tories out of government or to win strategic victories in parliament isn’t blindness, it’s wilful paralysis. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/75 "2015-10-14T10:05:56Z")
It’s been Conference season. Back to PMQs today - Corbyn has been asking for questions again for PMQs. Also Cameron was in Bullingdon bully mode at Conference (about Corbyn) so it’ll be interesting to see what happens at noon … ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/76 "2015-10-14T18:47:08Z")
He is the Elven Overlord ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/77 "2015-10-14T20:41:47Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Corbyn is content for members of his Cabinet to have different views; he claims to want to achieve consensus by debating the issues. There is no ‘disloyalty’ no ignoring the Whip no “knifing”. Whether it all works out is another matter. But he has the mandate to pursue this for some while yet We had a political party in Canada which took that approach: the Progressives in the 1920s. They had considerable popular support and actually came in second in the seat totals in the 1921 general election. They got wiped out pretty quickly in the subsequent elections. When one party in Parliament is essentially a debating club, with no set party policies, and no ability to rely on party discipline to try to win votes in a minority Commons to advance their goals; and the other two parties are disciplined parties that actually stand together on policies, and can deliver results by votes in the Commons, the voters chose the two disciplined parties. Some Progressives went to the Liberals; some merged with the Conservatives, creating the Progressive Conservatives; and some created a new party, the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation with, guess what, party discipline and a clear set of party policies. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-is-screwed/734197/78 "2015-10-15T09:13:45Z")
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