# Corbyn Labour leadership the disaster everybody knew it would be **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 27, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698 "2015-11-27T09:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jack\_of\_Words](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@Jack\_of\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_of_Words)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/81 "2015-12-04T18:23:41Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > \*not \*an indication of Labour’s ability to win a general election. They didn’t win the last two, without Corbyn. We were being told even before he was elected leader that his leadership would make them unelectable…we know who spread that story, and we can tell who fell for it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/82 "2015-12-04T19:43:30Z")
The Telegraph’s [cartoon today](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03518/BOB051215_3518589k.jpg) is most excellent ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/83 "2015-12-04T23:34:19Z")
The Labour Party elected the wrong Miliband in 2010. Still, I’m not sure Ed should have resigned after the last defeat. Corbyn won’t survive until the next general election, thankfully. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/84 "2015-12-06T19:25:19Z")
Corbyn stubbornly will attend ‘Stop the War’ rally organized by radicals. This guy really doesn’t get it. > **[Corbyn WILL Go To Stop The War Xmas Event](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/8732814?utm_hp_ref=uk&ncid=fcbklnkukhpmg00000001)** > > Corbyn WILL Go To Stop The War Xmas Event ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/85 "2015-12-06T19:52:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The Telegraph’s [cartoon today](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03518/BOB051215_3518589k.jpg) is most excellent Who’s the guy next to him? ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/86 "2015-12-06T19:56:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Who’s the guy next to him? Nigel Farage. I won’t grace him with any kind of link. I’ll leave it up to you if you wish to investigate the odious little turd further! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/87 "2015-12-06T19:58:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Who’s the guy next to him? A wannabe Roderick Spode. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_of\_Words](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@Jack\_of\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_of_Words)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/88 "2015-12-06T20:20:04Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > A wannabe Roderick Spode. Oh, thank you, another excuse to share my favourite PG quote: _The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you’re someone. You hear them shouting “Heil, Spode!” and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: “Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?”_ [Bertie Wooster in The Code of the Woosters (1938)] Meanwhile, the naysayers foresaw doom in Oldham. You know they would have blamed Corbyn for a loss. It tells us something that they haven’t the good manners to congratulate him on a victory. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/89 "2015-12-06T22:58:43Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > It tells us something that they haven’t the good manners to congratulate him on a victory. Why would they? From what I’ve read, the local campaign was all about the local candidate, who has a significant local record that they pushed heavily; Corbyn was studiously not mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_of\_Words](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@Jack\_of\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_of_Words)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/90 "2015-12-07T09:13:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Why would they? From what I’ve read, the local campaign was all about the local candidate, who has a significant local record that they pushed heavily; Corbyn was studiously not mentioned. Well, for one, in the rest of the post you snipped I did say because the naysayers were prediciting that Corbyn would be responsible for Labour losing that seat. For two, because UKIP locally made Corbyn the focus of _their_ campaign - ie, don’t vote for the candidate whose party elected Corbyn (for examples of the sort of laughable slurs they promulgated, see various posts in this thread…) Three, four: Because it would be courteous and respectful. Do you need to ask why? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/91 "2015-12-07T09:27:27Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > They didn’t win the last two, without Corbyn. We were being told even before he was elected leader that his leadership would make them unelectable…we know who spread that story, and we can tell who fell for it. That’s right, they didn’t win the last two. And for the same reasons each time - they weren’t trusted on the economy, and their leader wasn’t considered Prime Minister material. Talk me through it - I would genuinely love to be convinced that Corbyn was good news - and explain how Corbyn is going to turn that around. Given that Scotland is lost, Labour needs a huge swing in England to win enough seats. How is Corbyn going to win back what Miliband lost, and go on to win what Miliband and Brown couldn’t. Who are the Corbyn voters in the marginals? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/92 "2015-12-07T10:26:04Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Talk me through it - I would genuinely love to be convinced that Corbyn was good news - and explain how Corbyn is going to turn that around. Corbyn is a man who people will come to respect, even if they don’t like him. > [@](#): > > Given that Scotland is lost, Actually, Corbyn could well be the man to recover Scotland for Labour. Politically we Scots tend to the left of England. As Mhairi Black said in her maiden speech, it was Labour who left her rather than she who left Labour. But he has a mountain to climb ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/93 "2015-12-07T10:40:24Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Corbyn is a man who people will come to respect, even if they don’t like him. Lots of people respect Ed Miliband, in that they think he’s sincere about his principles. They just don’t want him to be PM. > [@](#): > > Actually, Corbyn could well be the man to recover Scotland for Labour. Politically we Scots tend to the left of England. As Mhairi Black said in her maiden speech, it was Labour who left her rather than she who left Labour. But he has a mountain to climb Yes, we Scots do tend to the left. But the SNP has completely conquered Labour’s Scottish territory: if a left wing Scot feels the SNP represent her interests perfectly well, and will focus on Scotland specifically, why should she switch back to Corbyn? Scotland is lost to Labour until such time as the shine comes off the SNP - which will be long after 2020. If Labour want to win a general election, they need to win in England. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/94 "2015-12-07T10:49:20Z")
Well, Scotland is kinda lost to the tories also. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/95 "2015-12-07T11:44:55Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Well, Scotland is kinda lost to the tories also. Yes, but they don’t need it to win an general election. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/96 "2015-12-07T12:00:12Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > Three, four: Because it would be courteous and respectful. Do you need to ask why? Why should anyone be courteous or respectful to someone who ignores democracy and thinks this country should be bombed (see Corbyn’s support for the IRA). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_of\_Words](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@Jack\_of\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_of_Words)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/97 "2015-12-07T12:15:16Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > That’s right, they didn’t win the last two. And for the same reasons each time - they weren’t trusted on the economy, and their leader wasn’t considered Prime Minister material. You’re right - the Murdoch rags promoted the tory lies…that somehow Osborne’s appalling record means he should be trusted on the economy, that the poor, the sick and the disabled should be blamed for the coked-up bankers greed, and that obscenely rich ex-public schoolboys are the only sort of ‘Prime Minister material’. Not sure we should call it a democracy, when Murdoch can buy the result he wants. Labour failed because they became indistinguishable from the tories. Why vote for non-brand, when you can have a real tory? Now there’s a real alternative that might even get all those non-voters to participate in democracy again. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > Talk me through it - I would genuinely love to be convinced that Corbyn was good news - and explain how Corbyn is going to turn that around. Given that Scotland is lost, Labour needs a huge swing in England to win enough seats. How is Corbyn going to win back what Miliband lost, and go on to win what Miliband and Brown couldn’t. Who are the Corbyn voters in the marginals? Well, I doubt I’ll convince you, but I’m optimistic that a digital generation which doesn’t depend on daily newspapers for its opinions, which can share ideas and information readily, and which increasingly wants real, fundamental change to the way politics is done, will make a difference - especially as the impacts of ever deeper austerity spread. Scottish labour has a lot to make up for, but Corbyn and the SNP (and Plaid and the Greens) could form a sensible, grown up coalition. Granted, the english electorate isn’t perhaps ready for grown up politics - we never properly got rid of our aristos, so those old class issues of ‘we know what’s best for you’ haven’t entirely gone away, but again, progress progresses whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/98 "2015-12-07T12:29:32Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Yes, but they don’t need it to win an general election. They have a present majority of 12. And flu season hasn’t got underway. Plus, when people write the history books, they are going to indicate one fat little cretin whose name begins with a C who broke up the UK; and that name’s not Corbyn. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/99 "2015-12-07T12:39:31Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Plus, when people write the history books, they are going to indicate one fat little cretin whose name begins with a C who broke up the UK; and that name’s not Corbyn. Actually, that would be Blair (a Scot, if you’ll recall) who introduced devolution and gave the SNP a platform on which to build, and Salmond, who pursued personal power and damn everyone else. I truly fear for Scotland with the SNP. They are, IME, a bunch of racist bullies who are - at the top - out purely for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/100 "2015-12-07T13:55:36Z")
> [@Jack\_of\_Words](#): > > You’re right - the Murdoch rags promoted the tory lies…that somehow Osborne’s appalling record means he should be trusted on the economy, that the poor, the sick and the disabled should be blamed for the coked-up bankers greed, and that obscenely rich ex-public schoolboys are the only sort of ‘Prime Minister material’. Not sure we should call it a democracy, when Murdoch can buy the result he wants. _Ochone, ochone._ Yes, it’s all someone else’s fault. Murdoch’s, for lying, or the people’s, for being gullible, meanspirited fools. Certainlly there is nothing Labour could have done against these mighty forces. Alas, and alack. > [@](#): > > Labour failed because they became indistinguishable from the tories. Why vote for non-brand, when you can have a real tory? Actually, people could distinguish them all too well - they were the ones who couldn’t be trusted on the economy. Miliband fucked Labour by failing to make any kind of case for Labour’s economic record and allowed the Tories to paint him as a naive tax and spend lefty. Thank God we’ve got the dream team of Corbyn and McDonnell to turn _that_ ship around, eh? > [@](#): > > Now there’s a real alternative that might even get all those non-voters to participate in democracy again. Oh gods. The mythical non-voter rides to our rescue again. The defining characteristic of non-voters is that they don’t vote. The lazy assumptions that they’re all going to back Corbyn and ,this time they’ll actually vote are not a plan, they’re a pipedream. The biggest first-time voter turnout in the past 50 years was in the IndyRef, they were overwhelming proIndy and _No still won_ because voters are better at voting than non-voters. > [@](#): > > Well, I doubt I’ll convince you, but I’m optimistic that a digital generation which doesn’t depend on daily newspapers for its opinions, which can share ideas and information readily, and which increasingly wants real, fundamental change to the way politics is done, will make a difference - especially as the impacts of ever deeper austerity spread. How big is this digital generation, to the nearest 5% of the population? How about in the marginals? How does that compare to Mail-reading pensioners? Come to that - what real, fundamental change to the way politics is done is Corbyn actually proposing? There’s a lot of vaguery but what are the first three changes he’d make if he had a parliamentary majority? > [@](#): > > Scottish labour has a lot to make up for, but Corbyn and the SNP (and Plaid and the Greens) could form a sensible, grown up coalition. The SNP will take every opportunity it has to fuck Labour over because they do not want a resurgent Labour party - they want to stay in power. Painting Labour as ineffectual, out of touch, and in bed with the Tories is their key electoral strategy - why would they screw that up by letting them in the door? Similarly, effective opposition to the Tories shows that Scotland’s voice can be heard in the Union - why would the SNP want to sell that line? > [@](#): > > Granted, the english electorate isn’t perhaps ready for grown up politics - we never properly got rid of our aristos, so those old class issues of ‘we know what’s best for you’ haven’t entirely gone away, but again, progress progresses whether you like it or not. I see: the policies are right, it’s just the electorate that’s wrong. And I would love progress to progress - but it won’t with Corbyn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698.md?page=6)