# Corbyn Labour leadership the disaster everybody knew it would be **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 27, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698 "2015-11-27T09:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/141 "2016-06-29T10:16:18Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Corbyn remains popular with party members, so a few times recently he’s thrown out that if anyone wants to challenge him, they’ll need to beat him in a leadership ballot. Personally I think this is the right approach - not because I want to keep Corbyn, but because if Labour want to field someone who can win a general election they need someone capable of winning a leadership contest. Media speculation on challengers is: Tom Watson, Angela Eagle, Yvette Cooper, Lisa Nandy, Dan Jarvis and and Keir Starmer. Oh, and John McDonnell. Of those, I’ve never heard of Nandy, Jarvis and Starmer, Cooper has already been soundly trounced by Corbyn and I can’t imagine anyone favouring McDonnell who isn’t already a Corbyn supporter. Eagle seems to be the pundits’ fave at the moment but it’s all pretty much hypothetical at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/142 "2016-06-29T10:28:33Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Apparently persecuting insufficient zeal in being on the _losing_ side of a referendum campaign is preferable to advancing the principles of the Labour Party in an unprecedented electoral opportunity, when instead of binding the party even further to an unpopular affirmation of the status quo it could campaign a platform that seeks to heal the divide between Bremain and Brexit forces by supporting a more egalitarian, socially just, and (dare I say it?) greater Britain and thus win back the votes of the economically deprived, the white working-class, and other marginalized individuals who strongly supported Brexit for Labour. That’s a pretty picture. Corbyn is being ousted because it has become apparent even to his supporters among the MPs that he is simply incapable of making it reality. He had a chance to show that he could win over the marginalised, the socially deprived and the white working class and he didn’t turn up. He could have had a platform to articulate a vision of a more egalitarian, socially just and greater Britain within Europe, and he stepped back. > [@](#): > > Why should Labour-historically a working-class, social democratic/socialist party-abandon its core doctrines to turn itself into purely a vehicle for Europhiles? It’s as absurd as a Baptist demanding the Roman Catholic Church abandon its teachings on baptism, papal infallibility, eschatology, and so forth so he could join that denomination. Why wouldn’t Labour instead try to win over working-class voters who voted in favour of Brexit and who can actually be expected to have interests that coincide with the socioeconomic policies of the Labour Party? A working-class, social democratic party should be arguing fervently for Britain to stay in the EU, because the economic disruption of leaving and the long-term consequences of being out will fall hardest on the heads of the working class. Corbyn’s failure to win over working class voters to that proposition now shows that his chances of doing it in a general election are minimal. Corbyn has shown, in fact, that he has no interest in winning a general election. That’s not why he’s in politics. He’s there for the marches, and movement, and the protests. He’s not their for the votes, and the policies, and change. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/143 "2016-06-30T20:23:06Z")
Corbyn sticks his foot in it again, this time over Israel: [MP calls on Jeremy Corbyn to resign and 'make way for someone with the backbone to confront antisemitism' after he appears to compare Israel to 'various self-styled Islamic states and organisations'](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/angela-eagle-to-launch-labour-leadership-bid-in-battle-for-the-s/) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/144 "2016-06-30T21:13:42Z")
here’s another good one: [The anti-Semitism controversy roiling the UK Labour party, explained - Vox](http://www.vox.com/2016/4/29/11526516/anti-semitism-labour-jeremy-corbyn-ken-livingstone) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/145 "2016-06-30T21:13:50Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > A working-class, social democratic party should be arguing fervently for Britain to stay in the EU, because the economic disruption of leaving and the long-term consequences of being out will fall hardest on the heads of the working class. Can you justify any of that? I believe that we simply don’t know what the future will hold. Last Friday I spoke with a friend who voted to leave and he expected short-term issues but longer-term gains. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/146 "2016-06-30T23:17:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Of those, I’ve never heard of Nandy, Jarvis and Starmer. While completely irrelevant to events as they’re unfolding, I’ll note that Keir Starmer was probably the Labour MP newly elected last year with the beefiest CV. Under different titles, he was the chief government prosecutor in the period 2008-13. And has therefore often been spoken of as a possible future Labour leader - indeed some suggested he was an obvious candidate the last time round. (Starmer is my own MP. No, I don’t agree with all the decisions he took before he became that.) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/147 "2016-07-01T03:05:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Can you justify any of that? I believe that we simply don’t know what the future will hold. > > Last Friday I spoke with a friend who voted to leave and he expected short-term issues but longer-term gains. Obviously, in this thread, it would be a hijack for me or **stanislaus** to give reasons why we think the economic impact is likely to be bad and affect the poorest worst (as most recessions do). I think it’s sufficient here to say that that was the opinion of most economists, analysts, business leaders, banks etc. If Corbyn agreed with their analysis, then he should have campaigned more fervently. If not, then he at least owed it to Labour voters (and the country) to explicitly say he is less concerned about the dangers than most experts, but what the risks are if he is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/148 "2016-07-01T17:22:42Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > …I think it’s sufficient here to say that that was the opinion of most economists, analysts, business leaders, banks etc… I think you’ll find the left of The Labour Party isn’t too enthralled by big business and banks. I’m not sure why. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/149 "2016-07-03T00:55:20Z")
While Angela Eagle is a million times better than Corbyn, does anyone see her as a long term leader? I think she’s a caretaker who can at least bring respectability back. Hilary Benn is clearly the best choice for Labour as I can easily see him as Prime Minister. It would also be nice if a safe Labour MP would step aside for David Miliband. I’ve also been quite impressed with Stephen Kinnock. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/150 "2016-07-03T03:38:41Z")
No fun being Jeremy Corbyn these days: [Aides hold Jeremy Corbyn back after reporter asks if he was 'running away' | Jeremy Corbyn | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/jeremy-corbin-labour-leader-confrontation-with-journalist-running-away) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/151 "2016-07-03T13:02:47Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > I think you’ll find the left of The Labour Party isn’t too enthralled by big business and banks. I’m not sure why. Whether they’re enthralled is beside the point. Are their predictions accurate, or at least cause for concern? And note that big business and banks are just a subset of the groups that considered this a bad idea. And secondly if Corbyn believes he knows better than the experts, then with a decision this far-reaching and important, he owes it to the electorate to be clear on how he arrived at such a conclusion and what the risks are if he’s wrong. OTOH, if he believed what the experts were saying then he should have campaigned with much more conviction. Campaigning for Remain, but begrudgingly, late in the campaign, is negligent no matter which way you spin it. I tend to think he assumed Remain would win and in the meantime didn’t want to be seen on the same side as the PM. So if we’re wondering how Britain could make such a harmful decision, Corbyn’s complacence and opportunism are a big part of the answer. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/152 "2016-07-03T23:25:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > …And secondly if Corbyn believes he knows better than the experts, then with a decision this far-reaching and important, he owes it to the electorate to be clear on how he arrived at such a conclusion and what the risks are if he’s wrong… Are these disinterested “experts” we’re talking about? Multinational businesses and banks doing it for patriotic reasons? Do me a favour… ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/153 "2016-07-04T07:35:57Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > Are these disinterested “experts” we’re talking about? Multinational businesses and banks doing it for patriotic reasons? Do me a favour… Still doesn’t exempt him from the primary responsibility of a leader, i.e., to _lead_, i.e., in this case to make his case, not retire to the bunker of those who share his own ideological certainties. No party wins elections by preaching to the converted, especially if most of those who have actually been elected are walking away from you. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/154 "2016-07-04T10:59:34Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > Are these disinterested “experts” we’re talking about? Multinational businesses and banks doing it for patriotic reasons? Do me a favour… You’re both cherry-picking and missing the point yet again. You’re cherry-picking because those groups are just a subset of those that said brexit would be bad for britain, as I’ve said twice (and now a third time). Other groups include e.g. most trade unions, which, I gather, are not so abhorrent to the labour base. And you’re missing the point that I’ve already said twice, and I’ll say a third time: if corbyn disagreed with those groups he should have said so, and said why. If he agreed, then he should have campaigned more fervently. There’s just no sensible justification for sitting on his hands for so long if he cared at all about the future of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/155 "2016-07-04T12:17:22Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Still doesn’t exempt him from the primary responsibility of a leader, i.e., to _lead_, i.e., in this case to make his case, not retire to the bunker of those who share his own ideological certainties. No party wins elections by preaching to the converted, especially if most of those who have actually been elected are walking away from you. He was voted in as leader less than a year ago with almost 60% of the ballot. It seems like a lot of people joined The Labour Party just to elect him, and there has been some speculation about the motives of some of his “supporters”. Nevertheless, if the people now whingeing about him are claiming that he doesn’t represent The Labour Party, who is to blame? The Labour Party sets its own rules for leadership selection. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/156 "2016-07-04T12:28:47Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You’re both cherry-picking and missing the point yet again. > > You’re cherry-picking because those groups are just a subset of those that said brexit would be bad for britain, as I’ve said twice (and now a third time). Other groups include e.g. most trade unions, which, I gather, are not so abhorrent to the labour base. > > And you’re missing the point that I’ve already said twice, and I’ll say a third time: if corbyn disagreed with those groups he should have said so, and said why. If he agreed, then he should have campaigned more fervently. > There’s just no sensible justification for sitting on his hands for so long if he cared at all about the future of the UK. Cherry picking? They were two of the four groups in your post that I was answering. But, obviously, I agree that Corbyn, the democratically elected leader of The Labour Party should have campaigned more fervently for something he and a lot of the left of the party (who actually know the meaning of the word “labour”) obviously weren’t really enthusiastic about: The EU… Because you said so. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/157 "2016-07-04T15:27:09Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > Cherry picking? They were two of the four groups in your post that I was answering. Yep, that’s cherry-picking. Because the only reason to focus on those two was for your point that “Oh, Labour members are hardly enthralled by those groups” (paraphrasing)…the point is obviously a non-sequitur taking in all the examples I gave. Then in the next post I emphasized that big business and banks were just a subset of the groups that considered Brexit to be a grave danger to the economy, a point you continued to ignore. > [@](#): > > But, obviously, I agree that Corbyn, the democratically elected leader of The Labour Party should have campaigned more fervently for something he and a lot of the left of the party (who actually know the meaning of the word “labour”) obviously weren’t really enthusiastic about: The EU… > Because you said so. Actually, because I said so is the exact opposite of my point. I’m saying experts from academia, business leaders, economists, trade unions, banks etc were largely united in saying Brexit would be a bad idea. If he disagreed, he needed to say why. If he agreed, he needed to step up. Meanwhile I have no idea what your point is now. That because some proportion of Labour members don’t appreciate the importance of this decision, the right thing to do was FA? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/158 "2016-07-04T20:15:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > …I have no idea what your point is now… You have no idea… Fair enough, I’m too polite to point that out… > [@](#): > > Obviously, in this thread, it would be a hijack for me or stanislaus to give reasons why we think the economic impact is likely to be bad and affect the poorest worst (as most recessions do). I think it’s sufficient here to say that that was the opinion of most economists, analysts, business leaders, banks etc. . That because some proportion of Labour members don’t appreciate the importance of this decision, the right thing to do was FA? [/QUOTE] I concede. Because, obviously you and stanislaus know what’s best. Fuck democracy, all you useless cunts who voted leave, listen to Mijin and stanislaus and take our country back from those racist bastards who don’t think that Juncker should be the Luxembourgian gauleiter of Europe. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/159 "2016-07-04T20:18:10Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > …I have no idea what your point is now… You have no idea… Fair enough, I’m too polite to point that out… > [@](#): > > Obviously, in this thread, it would be a hijack for me or stanislaus to give reasons why we think the economic impact is likely to be bad and affect the poorest worst (as most recessions do). > > I think it’s sufficient here to say that that was the opinion of most economists, analysts, business leaders, banks etc. . That because some proportion of Labour members don’t appreciate the importance of this decision, the right thing to do was FA? I concede. Because, obviously you and stanislaus know what’s best. Fuck democracy, all you useless cunts who voted leave, listen to Mijin and stanislaus and take our country back from those racist bastards who don’t think that Juncker should be the Luxembourgian gauleiter of Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698/160 "2016-07-05T03:54:27Z")
Yeah, like i say, your “summary” is pretty much the opposite of the point being put to you. Also it’s considered bad form to take sentences from multiple posts and put them together in a single quote. Sent from my Mi-4c using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corbyn-labour-leadership-the-disaster-everybody-knew-it-would-be/738698.md?page=9)