# Cormac McCarthy fans: the time to discuss THE ROAD has come again. (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659 "2011-11-21T17:25:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/21 "2011-11-22T23:51:11Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > Never read the book and I’ve only seen the movie once when it was in theaters. I recall the ending being ambiguous, not knowing if the kid was going to be safe, or if that man was going to eat him. Does the kid really get saved in the book? Because I would vastly prefer an ambiguous ending. I haven’t seen the movie because of my Peter Jackson rule,\* but I don’t understand how you could think the Kindly Man was going to eat the Boy. If he had such intent, why would he go to any subterfuge? The boy was, well, a boy. If the Kindly Man wanted to eat him, he’d just shoot him. I’m also – well, uncertain – why you would prefer an ambiguous ending. _The Road_ isn’t a horror story or torture porn; those are plot-driven, all about twists and turns and betrayals and boobs. Though it’s set in a horrifying setting, _The Road_ is a character-driven piece, about the way living after the end has changed the Man – about his struggle to remain good when there’s no reason to believe that there’s any point to it. Back when _Fellowship of the Rings_ hit theatres, some reviewer on Salon or Slate or some such wrote that it was a Christian story about living in a world in which God has not revealed itself. _The Road_ is akin to that, methinks; it’s about remaining faithful to God when there’s every indication that God has gone fishing and ain’t coming back. - To wit: “Never watch movies based on books you love, Skaldimus. They only annoy you and lead to you annoying others.” ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/22 "2011-11-23T00:52:26Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > Am I being too optimistic, thinking that the presence of the dog with the family who rescues The Boy at the end implies that they were the ones who (unknowingly) spooked The Man when the dog started barking as they were hiding in the underground shelter, causing The Man and The Boy to move on - even though they had really hit the jackpot with the cache of food there? That’s what I assumed when I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/23 "2011-11-23T01:34:44Z")
I read the book, enjoyed it. I think I prefer Blood Meridian but of the McCarthy books I’ve read The Road probably comes second. I asked on here before about the [nature of the disaster](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=438766). I think my favourite passage in the book was the description of the cities. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/24 "2011-11-23T03:40:24Z")
Blood Meridian is my favorite McCarthy book. Judge Holdon is a mysterious and terrifying character. I believe he was the devil incarnate. And like someone else said in the other thread, I believe that in the Road the world was hit by a giant McGuffin bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/25 "2011-11-23T05:40:50Z")
I’ll join in the love for **Blood Meridian**. It’s an awesome book, in the Biblical sense of the word “awesome,” if there is such a sense. I know McCarthy’s lack of punctuation is an affectation, but hell, I love e.e. cummings too, so I can’t complain. It works for me for some reason. The wife’s suicide was a well-balanced dish of horrible awfulness and understandableness. I don’t blame her, even though it was a terrible thing to do. I enjoyed speculating on the cataclysm, but it doesn’t matter what it was, and I prefer not to be certain. Its ambiguity, like many of the other ambiguities in the book, made it more compelling for me. There’s so much stuff in the real world that I don’t understand; why would fiction be different? Maybe the ending was deus ex machina. I left the book figuring the kid still wouldn’t make it to adulthood, and even if he did, so what? With the collapse of the ecosystem and the general lack of sunlight, the human race was doomed. Amazing book. ---
**Author:** ![Ashes\_Ashes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ashes\_Ashes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashes_Ashes)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/26 "2011-11-23T07:42:41Z")
Except for Suttree, The Road is my least favorite of his books. It’s not much of a surprise and emotionally accessible. A lot of his other books are work, and a shock to your ideas about life and humanity. The Road does this, but not in as startling a manner as the others. Talking about petty-- it bugs the hell out of me that he writes ‘sit in the floor.’ On, on, _ **on!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Enterprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/76d3ee/32.png) [@Enterprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enterprise)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/27 "2011-11-23T09:15:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > [LIST] > [li] Assuming you’ve read and liked more than one of McCarthy’s novels, how would you rank _The Road_ among them?[/li] I’ve read (nah, I tried to read) _Blood Meridian_ and I have read _No Country for Old Men_. Since I really enjoyed the latter and thoroughly dispised the former, _The Road_ falls neatly between those two: it had its moments, and its setup was great, but ultimately I’m not sure why I should have read it. > [@](#): > > [li] Assuming you generally like _The Road_, would you say that your appreciation is because of his stylistic idiosyncrasies (the odd punctuation, the word coinages, et cetera) or in spite of that?[/li] Less annoying than the inexplicable shifts in diction in _Blood Meridian_, certainly; in fact, I don’t think it bothered me in this book, except for my general disbelief in such formal games. Must’ve been great when first done, now, it’s an affectation that doesn’t add to the meaning of your books, especially when you do it in every friggin book! [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > [li] Would you say that not naming most of the characters (only one name is ever given in the book, and that is of a minor character) helped you immerse yourself in the book, or was it a distraction?[/li] Neither-nor. This element, though, I found somewhat explicable, in the sense that it helps us understand the meaninglessness of previous life. > [@](#): > > [li] Does the suicide of The Man’s wife strike you as unforgivably immoral, or human and understandable?[/li] Understandable. > [@](#): > > [li] Did you assume that the cataclysm that brought down civilization (or at least American civilization) was a nuclear war, or something else? Did it bother you that such is never made made clear? If you don’t think it was a nuclear war, what do you think it was?[/li] I’d also say that it doesn’t really matter what it was, and in fact, I would suggest that the very fact that we’re not told is vital. This is the end of civilization, perhaps the end of life on Earth: what matter what caused it? It’s the dealing with it that’s important. > [@](#): > > [li] Does the Boy’s rescue by the kindly man and his family after the Man’s death strike you as a deus ex machina? Did it seem out of place with the overall tone of the book?[/li] No, not at all, because everything in the book has led us to conclude that there really is no “rescue” possible–just a prolongation of suffering and depravation, with occasional moments of happiness. The question is: are the moments of happiness worth the suffering, and leaving the boy alive at the end is precisely asking that question. Good move on McCarthy’s part. > [@](#): > > [li] Are there story elements you wish McCarthy had left out? Is there anything you’d want to add?[/li] My overall problem with the story is that precisely because it is so bleak and no-hopey, it really didn’t have any justification for its plot. I certainly didn’t believe at any point that any of the destinations the man and the boy were trying to reach were in any way going to be more interesting than any others, and consequently, the repeat difficulties they encountered seemed both episodic and unmotivated. There’s a reason it’s a very short book (I believe I read it in something like two hours), but it doesn’t even carry its short length very well, I thought. His setup was far more original than the individual elements of the plot (cannibals! hidden food stores! kindly co-travellers! I’ve seen it all…). [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/28 "2011-11-23T20:39:52Z")
I will certainly try Blood Meridian; thank you all! ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/29 "2011-11-23T21:36:40Z")
I briefly _tried_ to read _Blood Meridian_ last year when I was in England, and couldn’t do it - the writing style was just unbearable to me. I also felt that the premise of the book may have been plagiarised from _Hogg_, and I’m not just saying that to be provocative - I really mean it. Judge Holden is too close to the character of Hogg for it to be just a coincidence, especially considering the rape and pederasty, and the narrator’s relationship to Holden’s gang is quite similar to the narrator of Hogg and the gang of “rape artists.” I _highly_ suspect that McCarthy read Delany’s work and tried to copy it. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/30 "2011-11-23T21:44:56Z")
> [@Gordon\_Urquhart](#): > > **Barkis is Willin’** , your comment about the Spanish in the Border Trilogy is interesting. That was **Stratocaster**. As for the nuclear bomb, I assumed the man never mentioned radiation because it was something he had absolutely no control over. All he could control was their search for food, shelter and so forth. It somehow never occurred to me that it could have been an asteroid. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/31 "2011-11-23T22:00:03Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > And like someone else said in the other thread, I believe that in the Road the world was hit by a giant McGuffin bomb. I always thought of a McGuffin as being the mysterious, vaguely-defined object of a quest…sort of pulling the plot forward, rather than propelling it from the back. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/32 "2011-11-23T22:01:24Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I will certainly try Blood Meridian; thank you all! I liked Blood Meridian but it’s a difficult read (it was for me anyway) and it’s bleaker and more brutal than The Road. I’m not saying don’t read it but if you find that you don’t like it consider the Border Trilogy or No Country for Old Men, they’re much more accessible. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/33 "2011-11-24T04:01:12Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > I liked Blood Meridian but it’s a difficult read (it was for me anyway) and it’s bleaker and more brutal than The Road. I’m not saying don’t read it but if you find that you don’t like it consider the Border Trilogy or No Country for Old Men, they’re much more accessible. I absolutely loathed the movie No Country for Old Men; I doubt I would like the book. Really, I hated everything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/34 "2011-11-24T04:48:28Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I also felt that the premise of the book may have been plagiarised from _Hogg_ Oh, ferchrissakes. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/35 "2011-11-24T07:34:49Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I briefly _tried_ to read _Blood Meridian_ last year when I was in England, and couldn’t do it - the writing style was just unbearable to me. I also felt that the premise of the book may have been plagiarised from _Hogg_, and I’m not just saying that to be provocative - I really mean it. Judge Holden is too close to the character of Hogg for it to be just a coincidence, especially considering the rape and pederasty, and the narrator’s relationship to Holden’s gang is quite similar to the narrator of Hogg and the gang of “rape artists.” I _highly_ suspect that McCarthy read Delany’s work and tried to copy it. Blood Meridian was published a decade before Hogg. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/36 "2011-11-24T08:35:59Z")
But _Hogg_ was _written_ in 1969. An updated draft was prepared in 1973. Delany shopped it around trying to get it published for decades; nobody wanted to touch it. The literary community is tight, and it’s not inconceivable that McCarthy read the _Hogg_ manuscript prior to writing _Blood Meridian._ Both books feature a traveling gang of extremely dangerous characters. Both books have a young _boy_ join the gang and accompany them on their exploits. In both books, the boy has no real name, known only as “the kid/the cocksucker”. Both books are ostensibly “about” this boy, but really centered around a different character. In _both_ of those books, that character is: [ul] [li]Extremely physically large[/li][li]Pale-skinned[/li][li]Highly intelligent[/li][li]Violent and sadistic[/li][li]A rapist[/li][li]A pederast.[/li][/ul] That’s pretty similar. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/37 "2011-11-24T18:21:31Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I absolutely loathed the movie No Country for Old Men; I doubt I would like the book. Really, I hated everything about it. I absolutely loathe Peter Jackson’s _Return of the King_ (except for four scenes), but I adore the book. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/38 "2011-11-24T18:38:36Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I always thought of a McGuffin as being the mysterious, vaguely-defined object of a quest…sort of pulling the plot forward, rather than propelling it from the back. Yeah, you’re probably right. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/39 "2011-11-24T20:06:52Z")
I like how you claim that naming a character “the boy” is at all similar to naming a character “the cocksucker.” The boy in Blood Meridian was a young man/teenager anyway, not a child. You’re claiming plagiarism based upon both books having a large bad white dude. Yeah, totally the same. Do you keep a tally of how many threads you can hijack with your Hogg fetish? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659/40 "2011-11-24T22:02:29Z")
Blood Meridian was also partially based on real events or purported real events in any case. Holden was supposedly a member of the [Glanton Gang](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Joel_Glanton). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cormac-mccarthy-fans-the-time-to-discuss-the-road-has-come-again-open-spoilers/603659.md?page=1)