# Corn Syrup: What Do They Say About It? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 21, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785 "2010-01-21T02:43:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/41 "2010-01-21T21:40:54Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I did, and screw that. 12-18 hours to make bread? Man, I already _have_ a job. šŸ˜‰ I think Iā€™ll stick to my fresh-homemade-bread-in-45-minutes machine, thankyouverymuch. Eh. We start the bread Thursday night after dinner. We leave it alone until one of us gets home from work on Friday. Itā€™s the best kind of cooking- the kind that you can go off and play a computer game during. > [@](#): > > Mmmm. Warm bread. :: drool :: ) Drool, indeed. Soooo good. ---
**Author:** ![fandango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5ac83/32.png) [@fandango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fandango)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/42 "2010-01-21T21:40:59Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Thatā€™s just wrong. The two monosaccharides in table sugar are held together with a weak bond, which is the first thing that gets broken in your digestive system. Table sugar gets absorbed somewhat more slowly, but I donā€™t think thereā€™s a big difference. I donā€™t think you understand the metaphor. Having oxygen and hydrogen next to each other is not the same as having water, even though oxygen and hydrogen are the constituent elements of water. Likewise, having fructose and glucose in a solution together isnā€™t the same as having sucrose, even though those monosaccarides are the constituent elements of said sucrose. The post I was referring to said that HFCS was a disaccaride. The metaphor explains the difference. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/43 "2010-01-21T22:50:57Z")
fandango, yes, I understood what you were saying and the point you were replying to. I agree that HFCS is not a disaccharide, but your comparison to molecular hydrogen and oxygen is just way off. If, when you drank water, the very first thing that happened was for the oxygen and hydrogen to separate out and form diatomic molecules, then _that_ would be equivalent. In that case, you could consume separate hydrogen and oxygen and it would be roughly equivalent to drinking water. With sugar, it really does very quickly separate into fructose and glucose, so there is little difference in consuming them as monosaccharides (separate molecules) or as a disaccharide (stuck together). I admit that itā€™s slower for sugar to be absorbed, because that weak bond has to be broken first, but my impression is that this is fairly quick. ---
**Author:** ![fandango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5ac83/32.png) [@fandango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fandango)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/44 "2010-01-21T23:03:48Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > fandango, yes, I understood what you were saying and the point you were replying to. I agree that HFCS is not a disaccharide, but your comparison to molecular hydrogen and oxygen is just way off. > > With sugar, it really does very quickly separate into fructose and glucose, so there is little difference in consuming them as monosaccharides (separate molecules) or as a disaccharide (stuck together). I admit that itā€™s slower for sugar to be absorbed, because that weak bond has to be broken first, but my impression is that this is fairly quick. Dude, youā€™re overthinking it. I didnā€™t want to bring in talk about glycosidic bonds, rather I wanted to illustrate in simple terms that just because HFCS is made up of glucose and fructose, it is not the same thing as sucrose. Yes, I realised when I used my little metaphor that fructose isnā€™t\* just like\* hydrogen with one electron circling a nucleus or that glucose isnā€™t a necessary element to create fire like oxygen isā€“I guess I just took it for a given that people would realise that when I said ā€œis likeā€ I didnā€™t mean ā€œis exactly the same asā€. Sucrose broken down into its constituent monosaccharides is known as invert sugar and has different properties (it is sweeter and a bit more syrupy) ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/45 "2010-01-22T00:43:18Z")
fandango: my mistake. > [@CurtC](#): > > Itā€™s true that fructose and glucose behave differently in the body, and glucose is easier for your body to deal with. > > However, both HFCS and table sugar contain both fructose and glucose in very close proportions: table sugar is 50/50, and HFCS is usually 55% fructose and 45% glucose. If the choice is whether to consume table sugar or an equivalent amount of HFCS, there is negligible difference. A problem is that people consume so much more nowadays - itā€™s not a question of which you consume, itā€™s how much. Agreed. The HFCS in soda and other sweet drinks is 55% fructose. The type of HFCS used in most foods and baked goods is 58% fructose IIRC. Itā€™s all bad, but that extra fructose is going to add up if you eat a crapload of sweetened processed foods daily like most people I know. > [@](#): > > Correct me if Iā€™m wrong but isnā€™t fructose the sugar found in fruits (hence the name)? > If so, then eating fruits is a liver intensive act? Yes, but the amount of fructose in whole fruit is small compared to that of juice or sweeteners. Plus the fiber in fruit slows the absorption of the sugars. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/46 "2010-01-22T02:25:49Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Itā€™s all bad, but that extra fructose is going to add up if you eat a crapload of sweetened processed foods daily like most people I know. The fructose adds up? So does glucose. Itā€™s just calories. There is nothing special about it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/47 "2010-01-22T03:52:58Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > You start the no-knead bread the night before you want to have it. Since it sits for so long, the yeast taking a while to rise without sugar isnā€™t an issue. Even with kneaded bread recipes with 2-hour rises you donā€™t need sugar. Thereā€™s plenty of food for the yeasties in the flour itself that they donā€™t need any help. I have never added sugar to a normal white bread recipe, whether using commercial yeast or my sourdough starter. There has never been a problem with rising. ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/48 "2010-01-22T05:21:16Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > With sugar, it really does very quickly separate into fructose and glucose, so there is little difference in consuming them as monosaccharides (separate molecules) or as a disaccharide (stuck together). I admit that itā€™s slower for sugar to be absorbed, because that weak bond has to be broken first, but my impression is that this is fairly quick. Another thing that doesnā€™t get mentioned is that acids catalyze the break down of that link. So Iā€™d expect a cola sweetened with sucrose would actually contain very little sucrose since the acid in the tonic would have broken it down before you even drank it. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/49 "2010-01-22T15:29:53Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > The fructose adds up? So does glucose. Itā€™s just calories. There is nothing special about it. Donā€™t be silly. Nothing digested in the body is ā€˜just caloriesā€™. Fructose must be stored and processed in your liver in the same manner as alcohol. It passes through your small intestine nearly unchanged and goes straight through the portal vein straight to the liver. Your liver converts most the fructose it processes into fat; so lots of fructose contributes to (non-alcoholic) fatty liver disease and high triglycerides. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/50 "2010-01-22T15:50:00Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > ā€¦ I also think that the environmental cost of importing cane sugar is high since it generally needs to be shipped in from the tropics. Iā€™d be curious to see a whole-life-cycle analysis of US-produced HFCS versus US-produced beet sugar or non-US-produced cane sugar. Iā€™ve seen it asserted that growing corn for ethanol (for use in cars) in the US actually uses similar or greater amounts of fossil fuel and/or produces more greenhouse gases than just using plain gas in your car directly, since US farming methods are fossil-fuel intensive. Iā€™d love to see shipping considered as well as fertilizer and pesticide (production and pollution), tractors and other farm equipment, and fuzzy stuff like who grows the stuff ā€“ big corporate farms, family-owned farms in cooperatives, etc. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/51 "2010-01-22T16:39:53Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Donā€™t be silly. Nothing digested in the body is ā€˜just caloriesā€™. > > Fructose must be stored and processed in your liver in the same manner as alcohol. It passes through your small intestine nearly unchanged and goes straight through the portal vein straight to the liver. Your liver converts most the fructose it processes into fat; so lots of fructose contributes to (non-alcoholic) fatty liver disease and high triglycerides. Iā€™m sure that lots of fructose leads to liver problems, I donā€™t have any reason to believe that lots is 5 - 10% more than normal. Anybody that consumes lots of sucrose based drinks is going to have the same problems as those that drink HFCS based drinks. Nations [other than the US](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity) have an obesity problem as well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/52 "2010-01-22T17:17:35Z")
Somewhat debatable is the satiety rating of HFCS as opposed to sugar. I have seen studies that gave HFCS the very lowest rating, which means it takes more before you think you are full. Recently, another doper had a study that showed it wasnā€™t so bad. However, I think it does have a lower satiety rating, and I also point to the larger sizes today. When I was a kid 12oz was large, 18oz was huge. Today 32oz is no big deal and I have seen 64oz. Note that potatoes have a very high satiety rating, thus they really are good on a diet. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/53 "2010-01-22T17:31:47Z")
^It would be interesting to track these two trends together, the use of HFCS and bigger serving sizes. 7-11 stores introduced their 32-oz. Big Gulp in 1980. When did Coke et al start using HFCS? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/54 "2010-01-22T17:35:34Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > ^It would be interesting to track these two trends together, the use of HFCS and bigger serving sizes. 7-11 stores introduced their 32-oz. Big Gulp in 1980. When did Coke et al start using HFCS? 1. At least in large amounts, there was likely test markets before that. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/55 "2010-01-22T17:36:49Z")
I donā€™t understand the debate here over sugar in homemade bread. All it does is change the time/texture profile of the bread. If you want a slightly quicker bloom and a little faster rise, you get a lighter crumb for the same amount of time with a teaspoon of sugar or honey or whatever. The yeast will digest a lot of the sugar anyway; the amount left does not make a noticeable flavor difference or a calorie difference over the natural variation in flour. Sweet breads (not to be confused with sweetbreads) are different, as they are obviously sweetened. But for normal bread, white, wheat, or whatever, any sugar added is miniscule in comparison to the recipe and not worth worrying about. And even in mass-produced breads, HFCS used as a browning agent wonā€™t be HFCS for long; browning is a chemical reaction. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/56 "2010-01-22T17:39:42Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > I donā€™t understand the debate here over sugar in homemade bread. > > All it does is change the time/texture profile of the bread. If you want a slightly quicker bloom and a little faster rise, you get a lighter crumb for the same amount of time with a teaspoon of sugar or honey or whatever. The yeast will digest a lot of the sugar anyway; the amount left does not make a noticeable flavor difference or a calorie difference over the natural variation in flour.. Right, itā€™s only a tiny amount to feed the yeast. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/57 "2010-01-22T18:09:03Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Eh. We start the bread Thursday night after dinner. We leave it alone until one of us gets home from work on Friday. Itā€™s the best kind of cooking- the kind that you can go off and play a computer game during. If the time did bother you, though: take that exact recipe, double the yeast, and replace the 20-hour setting period with a ten minute wait followed by another ten minutes in a stand mixer with the dough hook, on whatever the highest speed that wonā€™t throw the mixer around is. Do everything else per recipe and it will be almost indistinguishable from the original (and still doesnā€™t need sugar). ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/58 "2010-01-22T18:47:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When I was a kid 12oz was large, 18oz was huge. When I was a kid, a ā€œking sizeā€ soft drink bottle was 10 ounces. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/59 "2010-01-22T19:48:22Z")
As far back as I can remember, which would be early 70ā€™s, soft drink machines sold 12 oz cans. There were also the bottle-dispensing vending machines, but I donā€™t remember if the glass bottles were 12 or 16 oz. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785/60 "2010-01-22T19:49:22Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > If the time did bother you, though: take that exact recipe, double the yeast, and replace the 20-hour setting period with a ten minute wait followed by another ten minutes in a stand mixer with the dough hook, on whatever the highest speed that wonā€™t throw the mixer around is. Do everything else per recipe and it will be almost indistinguishable from the original (and still doesnā€™t need sugar). Ok, but I still donā€™t understand why such a miniscule amount of sugar (weā€™re talking a spoonfull for a 6 cup recipe) is an issue of concern. You can get the same result by using active dry yeast instead of quick-rise, or letting it rise in a warmer place, or any number of other ways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corn-syrup-what-do-they-say-about-it/525785.md?page=4)