# Cornell poll: 44% of Americans believe that Muslims should not have civil rights. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497 "2004-12-18T06:10:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/1 "2004-12-18T06:10:07Z")
America is getting scarier by the [day](http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Dec04/Muslim.Poll.bpf.html). > [@](#): > > ITHACA, N.Y. – In a study to determine how much the public fears terrorism, almost half of respondents polled nationally said they believe the U.S. government should – in some way – curtail civil liberties for Muslim Americans, according to a new survey released today (Dec. 17) by Cornell University. > > About 27 percent of respondents said that all Muslim Americans should be required to register their location with the federal government, and 26 percent said they think that mosques should be closely monitored by U.S. law enforcement agencies. Twenty-nine percent agreed that undercover law enforcement agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations, in order to keep tabs on their activities and fund raising. About 22 percent said the federal government should profile citizens as potential threats based on the fact that they are Muslim or have Middle Eastern heritage. In all, about 44 percent said they believe that some curtailment of civil liberties is necessary for Muslim Americans. Please take note that this is a poll about Muslims who are _American Citizens_. Something approaching half of Americans believe that certain citizens should have their civil rights taken away from them based solely on their religious beliefs. What the fuck is going on in this country? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/2 "2004-12-18T06:21:02Z")
When they do these polls, do they take into account the IQ of the average person who is willing to let a complete stranger waste a chunk of their time? ---
**Author:** ![Spongemom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Spongemom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spongemom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/3 "2004-12-18T06:26:28Z")
You can get whatever results you want if you poll the right people. Sure, ask a couple hundred hardcore rednecks what they think, and your poll will come out all fucked up like that one did. Either way, anyone who thinks like that should have their own church closed down and/or heavily monitored and see what they think. Doesn’t sound too spiffy when the shoe’s on the other foot, now does it? (Spoken to the 44% named in the OP poll) ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/4 "2004-12-18T06:31:40Z")
Well, if I’m not mistaken several Islamic “charities” in this very country have been funnelling money straight into the hands of terrorism. We all know that Mosques in America have been used as terrorist headquarters: the bastards responsible for the first World Trade Center bombing, including mastermind Shiek Rahman, operated out of the “El Salaam Mosque” in New Jersey. (Ironically, that means “Mosque of Peace in Arabic.” Funny how they define “peace.”) As for profiling based on Middle Eastern heritage, this is to be expected since 1. every single terrorist (!) involved in 9/11 was Middle Eastern, and 2. “Middle East” equals “Terrorist” for the average American, since the name of every terrorist on the news nowadays, for some mystical reason seems to be Muhammad this, Omar that or Abdullah the other. The fact that Muslims are seen as suspicious right now in this country should surprise nobody, least of all a self-professed “Cynic.” Moving right along, I don’t think that everything listed in that survey is actually a curtailment of civil rights. Is your definition of civil rights the right to live without being discriminated against (DENIED service, equal access, equal opportunities just because of your race?) That’s my definition of it. Blacks in the South before the Civil Rights Movement, for example, did not have civil rights: they could not be served at restaurants, they could not drink from the same water fountains, they were denied their Constitutionally-ensured voting rights by means of a poll tax…after the Civil Rights Movement, after sufficient legislation and changing of the laws, blacks had civil rights. This doesn’t sound like the situation of Muslims in this country. They have the same rights as everyone else, and nothing in that survey you’ve quoted would deny them anything that anyone else has. What they would do would allow the government to keep a closer eye on what is going inside your friendly neighborhood Mosque: maybe it’s funding of terrorism, maybe it isn’t. Maybe they’re drawing up bombing plans, maybe they aren’t. It would allow the government to keep a closer eye on those friendly Yemenite fellows who just moved next door to you in your Buffalo suburb: maybe they are operating a friendly neighborhood “terrorist cell,” and maybe they aren’t. I don’t really see how increased surveillance is a denial of civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/5 "2004-12-18T06:31:56Z")
Cornell is petty prestigious. I don’t think there’s any reason to believe they cooked their poll. Do you have any reason to believe that they manipulated their sampling methods? What would be their motive? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/6 "2004-12-18T06:36:46Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Moving right along, I don’t think that everything listed in that survey is actually a curtailment of civil rights. > [@](#): > > (From the poll > …about 44 percent said they believe that some curtailment of civil liberties is necessary for Muslim Americans. They specifically said that they want to curtail civil rights for American citizens based on their religious beliefs. A position I’m sure you would agree is thoroughly repulsive and anti-American. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/7 "2004-12-18T06:43:40Z")
Hmmm…well, according to this thread so far, 20% of Americans are willing to curtail Muslim civil rights. And that’s pretty bad in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/8 "2004-12-18T06:44:11Z")
The words “in all” imply that the Cornell survey is defining the above listed federal measures as “curtailments of civil liberties.” If there was a question on the survey, “Do you support the curtailment of Muslim civil rights” and 44% of people answered it as “Yes” then that’s another thing. Although that too is completely understandable in today’s poltical climate, but I don’t see why we need to be denying Constitutional rights to our own citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/9 "2004-12-18T06:48:35Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > The words “in all” imply that the Cornell survey is defining the above listed federal measures as “curtailments of civil liberties.” > > If there was a question on the survey, “Do you support the curtailment of Muslim civil rights” and 44% of people answered it as “Yes” then that’s another thing. Although that too is completely understandable in today’s poltical climate, but I don’t see why we need to be denying Constitutional rights to our own citizens. All of the things listed are indeed curtailments of civil rights based on nothing but religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/10 "2004-12-18T06:51:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Either way, anyone who thinks like that should have their own church closed down and/or heavily monitored and see what they think. Doesn’t sound too spiffy when the shoe’s on the other foot, now does it? (Spoken to the 44% named in the OP poll) Nobody’s suggesting anybody’s house of worship should be closed down. When they find a Catholic or Protestant church or a Jewish synagogue being used as a terrorist HQ, and evidence that prominent Jewish and Christian charities have been pumping money into terrorist groups, and find bomb-making instructions in the Knights of Columbus meeting hall, then yes, maybe it’s time for them to be heavily monitored. As it stands now there’s one major religion in this nation that has been proven to maintain religious-based connections, even if they’re not universally held, with terrorism. And it isn’t Protestantism, Catholicism or Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/11 "2004-12-18T06:53:14Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Nobody’s suggesting anybody’s house of worship should be closed down. > > When they find a Catholic or Protestant church or a Jewish synagogue being used as a terrorist HQ, and evidence that prominent Jewish and Christian charities have been pumping money into terrorist groups, and find bomb-making instructions in the Knights of Columbus meeting hall, then yes, maybe it’s time for them to be heavily monitored. As it stands now there’s one major religion in this nation that has been proven to maintain religious-based connections, even if they’re not universally held, with terrorism. And it isn’t Protestantism, Catholicism or Judaism. Have you ever heard of Ireland? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/12 "2004-12-18T06:54:49Z")
Hpw about anti-abortion terrorists, by the way. Those are Christians, I guess we better take their rights away. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/13 "2004-12-18T07:00:41Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Hpw about anti-abortion terrorists, by the way. Those are Christians, I guess we better take their rights away. You’d do it in a heartbeat if you had the power. ---
**Author:** ![Spongemom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Spongemom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spongemom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/14 "2004-12-18T07:01:06Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Hpw about anti-abortion terrorists, by the way. Those are Christians, I guess we better take their rights away. I consider people who commit any type of hate crime to be terrorists. Including gay bashers, and as Cynic mentioned, the anti-woman crowd. Shall we strip them of their rights also? ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/15 "2004-12-18T07:03:19Z")
DTC, I’m in full agreement with you. I am alarmed by the anti-Muslim/Arabic (seemingly interchangable terms in the media these days) rhetoric I am hearing from mainstream sources. Even TV shows reflect this. Enemies are usually turban wearing and dark skinned. Haven’t we been down this path before? This should scare everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/16 "2004-12-18T07:03:33Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > You’d do it in a heartbeat if you had the power. The fuck I would. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/17 "2004-12-18T07:03:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Have you ever heard of Ireland? Sure have. Wonderful place. I said “in this nation.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/18 "2004-12-18T07:08:29Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Sure have. Wonderful place. > > I said “in this nation.” In this nation we have Christian terrorists. Not just anti-abortion, but anti-gay, anti-Jewish and “Christian Identity” white supremamcists. They are a nutbag fringe minoroty just like the Muslims who commit acts of terror and we do not take people’s rights away because someone else has committed crimes in the name of the same god that the overwhelming majority worship in peace and good will. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/19 "2004-12-18T07:08:54Z")
Dio, I know your heart bleeds for our Muslim bretheren. But can you tell me when the last time was that you heard of a church funding abortion-clinic bombings? Those abortion clinics are bombed by lone nuts. I can’t recall an organized terrorist effort, comprising dozens or hundreds of members and based in the Christian faith with headquarters in a prominent church, ever committing crimes against those who facilitate abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497/20 "2004-12-18T07:13:44Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Dio, I know your heart bleeds for our Muslim bretheren. You say that with such contempt. Why? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornell-poll-44-of-americans-believe-that-muslims-should-not-have-civil-rights/280497.md?page=2)