# Corner Crossing - Large portions of US public land inaccessible to public **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691 "2022-11-28T16:34:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/41 "2022-11-30T18:23:50Z")
Right, I was just wondering if there were ATVs or 4x4s involved. I could see land owners being legitimately a bit more hesitant about allowing them to cross. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/42 "2023-05-25T13:56:52Z")
Having been brought here from the “Mountain” thread, isn’t there a legal maxim that goes something like “The sheriff isn’t interested in trifles”? This encroachment seems terribly trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/43 "2023-05-25T14:13:47Z")
> **[De minimis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis)** > > De minimis is a Latin expression meaning "pertaining to minimal things", normally in the terms de minimis non curat praetor ("The praetor does not concern himself with trifles") or de minimis non curat lex ("The law does not concern itself with trifles"), a legal doctrine by which a court refuses to consider trifling matters. Queen Christina of Sweden (r. 1633–1654) favoured the similar Latin adage, aquila non capit muscās (the eagle does not catch flies). > The legal history of de minimis dates ... ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/44 "2023-05-25T14:22:26Z")
Praetor sounds so much cooler than sheriff. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/45 "2023-05-25T14:58:13Z")
Indeed! As for _de minimis_, the North Carolina Supreme Court ruled in 1835 that any trespass to land is actionable, no matter how trifling: > **[Dougherty v. Stepp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougherty_v._Stepp)** > > Dougherty v. Stepp, 18 N.C. 371 (N.C. 1835) is a decision of the North Carolina Supreme Court authored by Chief Justice Thomas Ruffin. For at least a century, this case has been used in first-year Torts classes in American law schools to teach students about the tort of trespass upon real property. > Stepp incorrectly believed that certain unenclosed land belonging to Doughterty belonged to him. Stepp therefore entered the unenclosed land with a surveyor and chain carriers, who began surveying t... ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/46 "2023-05-25T15:00:57Z")
I don’t know what the legal or Latin terms are for “this is bullshit” is, but it would fit with this situation. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/47 "2023-05-25T15:25:16Z")
The law has not dealt with this subject in a reasonable manner. ‘Corner crossing’ definitely results in a trespass, but also one that should be harmless in many circumstances. Currently, allowing even minor trespasses can result in the devaluation of property. Not something you care about of course, unless that property is yours. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/48 "2023-05-25T15:28:54Z")
Where there are no fences, like Elk Mountain, you can cross without touching their property. I don’t understand how that is trespass? I have sidewalks along my property and I guarantee people swing their arms over my property as they walk or step on it to pick up dog poop. How is that not considered trespassing? Trifling is trifling. Edit to add: I guess I’d have to post “no trespassing” signs to make the case, but would it work? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/49 "2023-05-25T15:29:10Z")
Bruising of grass sounds like the textbook definition of “de minimis” to me. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/50 "2023-05-25T15:31:21Z")
I’ve corner-crossed without even a bruising of grass. Without fences, you don’t have to step on the private property if the boundary is marked. I’ve also corner-crossed over fences. Didn’t know I was such a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/51 "2023-05-25T15:53:06Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Currently, allowing even minor trespasses can result in the devaluation of property. I suppose it depends if the devaluation is due to property damage, loss of ability to use the property, or due to a loss of exclusive access to public lands. I’m fine with the Law cracking down on the first two, the third not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/52 "2023-05-29T23:39:02Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5NpbU7I55Zw/maxresdefault.jpg "Corner Crossing Hunters Win Big in Federal Court") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NpbU7I55Zw) ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/53 "2023-05-30T00:29:24Z")
Glad to see this ruling against the selfish, greedy, rich assholes. I hope strides are made to put into law guarantee of public access to public property without the need for expensive flights. Also, no trading of sections of land unless there is real benefit to the public and not the private land owner. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/54 "2023-05-30T14:09:25Z")
The argument for damages sounds a lot like “wah wah, the public will now have access to land I considered de facto private, so I’m damaged!” Fuck right off, says the judge (and me, too). ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/55 "2023-05-30T15:17:16Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I have sidewalks along my property and I guarantee people swing their arms over my property as they walk or step on it to pick up dog poop. When they step on it, it absolutely can be trespassing - possibly even without posting. In my state, posting is only necessary on unimproved, apparently unused land. So if I own 40 acres in a rural area, I would have to post it - but someone trespasses on the front yard of my 20 x 100 urban lot with a house on it by simply stepping on it. But that doesn’t mean I have any remedy if it’s a random person who steps on my front yard once - the police will likely not arrive in time to issue a ticket , and even if they get there in time , they probably will just tell the person to leave and stay off the property in the future. As far a civil case goes , someone stepping on my front yard may be liable for trespass but the damages will be nominal at best - good luck getting a lawyer to take it on contingency when I might get awarded $1 in damages. The only reason a lawyer took this case is because a lawyer thinks they might actually get a fairly high amount in damages (like millions) . ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/56 "2023-05-30T15:22:03Z")
Isn’t there some sort of “don’t be an asshole” law? I am glad to see this ruling and hope people continue to fight for public access to public land. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/57 "2023-05-30T15:52:43Z")
Is there someplace I can read about this without having to watch a video? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/58 "2023-05-30T15:54:39Z")
Here is one article on the ruling: > **[Public Land Hunters Win Corner Crossing Case in Wyoming](https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/hunters-win-corner-crossing-case-wyoming/)** > > The District Court of Wyoming found that four hunters didn't trespass while corner crossing, stepping through a private landowner's airspace. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/59 "2023-10-27T04:11:56Z")
The landowner installed a chain that bridged the corner. That obviously crossed public land since the corner itself is zero size. Isn’t there some law against installing permanent fixtures or the like on public land? I wonder if the hunters could have simply cut the chain (cutting the part that crossed into public land, of course). ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691/60 "2023-10-27T04:14:11Z")
You would think so! But obviously the private land owners are given special rights when they can even control the air space into these public lands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corner-crossing-large-portions-of-us-public-land-inaccessible-to-public/975691.md?page=4)