# Cornish Pasty in England. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954 "2018-11-03T23:53:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/41 "2018-11-04T18:13:30Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > A London Broil is nothing like a “mixed grill”. It’s a largish cut of steak that is marinated and cut in strips when served. I stand corrected. That doesn’t sound like anything we identify as a separate dish. Back to Cornish pasties - there’s been quite a correspondence in the Guardian about whether they should be crimped on the side or on top. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/42 "2018-11-04T18:19:03Z")
I’ve usually bought them in bakeries. I especially recall a shop on the High St in Lyme Regis. Some were quite good, and others… not. The contents make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/43 "2018-11-04T18:21:42Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > You mean you don’t put some of those pasties on a damn boat and ship ‘em down to the Lower 48? What do the poor bastards in Cross Village get to eat, McDonald’s burgers? Nope. If the trolls want pasties, the trolls can cross the bridge and we might sell them a couple. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/44 "2018-11-04T19:36:17Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > As others have said - the UP of Michigan is the epicenter of pasties in the US. We have two dedicated pasty shops in my small town, and you can get them at plenty of other places as well. It’s not at all uncommon for grocery stores to make pasties as part of their deli offerings, for example. Churches also do pasty sales for fundraisers. Pretty much any town in the UP will have a place to get a pasty. In the UP, what seems to be the main meat filling? I think lamb is best, but that’s just my taste. When they make pirozhki, Russian housewives normally use a blend of ground beef and pork. I like to add minced garlic, onion, and spinach. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/45 "2018-11-04T19:43:02Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > In the UP, what seems to be the main meat filling? I think lamb is best, but that’s just my taste. Mostly beef, sometimes a mix of beef & pork. Lamb isn’t a common meat in the region, for pasties or in general. Other than the meat, it’s potatoes, onions, and you usually have a choice of whether or not you want rutabaga. You can eat it plain, but it’s also pretty common to put ketchup or gravy on it. Personally, I’m with rutabaga and gravy. Yum. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/46 "2018-11-04T20:36:11Z")
South Brooklyn has lots of Russian food stores, where I’ve been buying pelmeni stuffed with beef, pork, and veal (Siberian style, or so they say) and cooking them in beef broth with lots of onion and garlic and a few sliced carrots. Served in shallow bowls, it’s more of a stew than a soup. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/47 "2018-11-04T21:09:47Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > South Brooklyn has lots of Russian food stores, where I’ve been buying pelmeni stuffed with beef, pork, and veal (Siberian style, or so they say) and cooking them in beef broth with lots of onion and garlic and a few sliced carrots. Served in shallow bowls, it’s more of a stew than a soup. Yes; pelmeni are stuffed dumplings rather than meat pies, though I have had them deep-fried and served with Georgian plum sauce. I sometimes simmer them in tomato juice with some sauteed garlic, onion, okra, and coriander-based seasoning. Ones stuffed with beef, veal, or lamb work equally well. Serve this with some fresh flat bread and plain yogurt, yum! Just make sure you use extra-virgin olive oil to sautee the veg. Getting back to pasties, I loves me some rutabaga smothered in gravy! Mmmmmmmmmmm! :o ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/48 "2018-11-04T22:10:44Z")
A proper pot pie does have a complete crust, upper and lower, but it’s still a very different sort of thing than a pasty. Pot pie needs a bowl and a fork: It’s basically stew in a pie crust. If you tried to take a pot pie out of its tin and eat it with your hands, you’d end wearing most of it. And you can get some good meat pies around here, but they’re all from Middle Eastern eateries. I don’t think there are any British ones, and there certainly aren’t any American ones. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/49 "2018-11-04T22:20:51Z")
The only pasties I’ve ever had came from a recipe in a Time-Life cookbook, about the Northeast United States. I may not know “authentic” but God they are good. The crust is made with lard, and the filling had minced beef, onions, potatoes, and turnips. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/50 "2018-11-04T23:47:22Z")
In melb.aus, the traditional Cornish Pasty had only vegetable filling. Not vegetarian, because the pastry wasn’t vegetarian. Which, I confess, makes me wonder about authentic Cornish Pasty. For miners. I’ve never heard that Cornish miners were particularly wealthy, and I’ve always heard that meat was particularly expensive. Given, a little bit of ground up cheap meat goes a long way as flavouring for vegetables, but I still wonder if Cornish Miners didn’t go from one month to the next without eating any meat, as poor people in the rest of the world did. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/51 "2018-11-05T00:08:08Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I wouldn’t say I’ve never had a good chicken pot pie in the states, but generally I am pretty underwhelmed by them. > > I would even question if they really count as proper meat pies, as they are generally just a chicken stew with a lid of dry pastry, it is the soggy gravy-infused pastry that makes a good meat pie IMO > > Also now I want a meat pie, anyone know of a good meat pie shop in the Washington DC area? 🙂 Best chicken pot pie in the US was from the Automat in NYC. RIP Automat. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/52 "2018-11-05T01:14:08Z")
I have heard that Musso & Frank have a decent Pot Pie on Thursdays. > **[Menu - Musso and Frank Grill](https://mussoandfrank.com/menu/)** > > Content will not be used on this page… > **[Musso and Frank’s History | Musso and Frank](https://mussoandfrank.com/about/history/)** > > Musso and Frank has been around as long as Hollywood—and we’ve got the stories to prove it. Learn more about our history and the legends behind our legacy. “Proudly serving Hollywood since 1919” ! ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/53 "2018-11-05T14:16:33Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yeah, North Michigan is the U.S. epicenter of Cornish pasty culture. I’ve never seen them anywhere else. > > The Canadians are pretty damn good at meat pies, especially out east. I had some great ones in Cape Breton. > > I make my own here in New York, but mine are pork and vegetables baked into a full-sized pie crust and cut into slices when cold. We make them in a pie pan, too. Very simple ground meat, onions, carrots, potatoes baked in a pie crust. The Finnish immigrants who worked in the mines learned about them from the Cornish miners, I guess, and are now available where ever Finnish immigrants go…very different from the genuinely Finnish piirakka. A Scandinavian bakery in South Florida sells two types of piirakka, Michigan pasties, and even some empanadas. (Spanish baker) Certain parts of Wisconsin have Cornish pasties, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bert\_Nobbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@Bert\_Nobbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bert_Nobbins)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/54 "2018-11-05T17:36:12Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Not just dirty, antimony-contaminated. Even back in the 19th century, it was recognized something about the ore made you sick if you had too close contact with it. Given the coarseness of the flour at the time, some historians have expressed doubts whether they ate the crust at all but simply used it as a disposable container for the innards. The major poisonous component in copper ore is usually arsenic. And yes, I have always understood that the crimping was a handle you discarded. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/55 "2018-11-05T18:04:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A proper pot pie does have a complete crust, upper and lower, but it’s still a very different sort of thing than a pasty. Pot pie needs a bowl and a fork: It’s basically stew in a pie crust. If you tried to take a pot pie out of its tin and eat it with your hands, you’d end wearing most of it. I seem to remember from watching the _ **Life on a Tudor Farm** _ series that the crusts of meat pies were originally intended to serve as vessels for their fillings and were not eaten themselves (or at least not in their entirety). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/56 "2018-11-05T18:26:50Z")
> [@Bert\_Nobbins](#): > > The major poisonous component in copper ore is usually arsenic. > > And yes, I have always understood that the crimping was a handle you discarded. Too true (a lot of copper is mined in Arizona) but in Cornwall they were mining tin, not copper. Looking up the symptoms for [antimony poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimony#Toxicity) I find “Effects may be similar to arsenic poisoning.” In the Comstock district they were mining silver and some gold. I am not sure what hazards might be associated with the ore there. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/57 "2018-11-05T18:47:43Z")
There’s a bit of talk here about the “handle” - the crimped edge (crimped around or over the top - depends on the bakery) that was supposedly discarded after eating the filling. I think is a largely discredited theory now - the traditional Cornish way to eat them is end-to-end\*, holding in a paper or muslin bag to stop them getting dirty. No point in throwing away good food, it’s hard to come by! There’s photographic evidence for this from the mid-1800s. Devon also has pasties, but we don’t crow about it so much. - There’s also suggestions that some pasties had meat and potato in one end and apple or pear or some sweet in the other, as a complete meal in one, but I think this is also discredited. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/58 "2018-11-05T19:42:36Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Too true (a lot of copper is mined in Arizona) but in Cornwall they were mining tin, not copper. They mined both. So much so that a traditional toast to the county’s prosperity was (in Cornish) “_Pysk, sten, ha kober!_” (“Fish, tin, and copper!”) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/59 "2018-11-05T19:54:07Z")
In the \*\*\*Poldark \*\*\*novels, Ross was saved from ruin when he discovered the layers of tin and copper in his mine were inverted; he’d been looking for one and discovered the other. ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954/60 "2018-11-05T23:35:02Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > There’s a bit of talk here about the “handle” - the crimped edge (crimped around or over the top - depends on the bakery) that was supposedly discarded after eating the filling. I think is a largely discredited theory now - the traditional Cornish way to eat them is end-to-end, holding in a paper or muslin bag to stop them getting dirty. No point in throwing away good food, it’s hard to come by! There’s photographic evidence for this from the mid-1800s. It always seemed like a back-formed story to tell tourists/people you want to impress with little known facts. “In the days before awareness of hygiene had developed, incredibly hungry people would throw away food because they’d touched it with their own grubby hands.” Yeah, that works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cornish-pasty-in-england/823954.md?page=4)