# Corona Virus vaccine? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 12, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374 "2020-03-12T23:44:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kanzan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@Kanzan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kanzan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/1 "2020-03-12T23:44:34Z")
As I understand it, the family of coronaviruses includes those that cause the common cold. Since no one has ever managed to create a vaccine for colds, what makes us think it would be possible to create one for the new one, SARS-coV-2? Or if that is a stupid question, please enlighten me as to why there is no such thing as a cold vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/2 "2020-03-13T00:00:01Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s at least 160 different strains, or serotypes, of rhinovirus, Barlow says. That means cracking the cold isn’t so much looking for one solution to one problem as it is trying to design a master key to open hundreds of different locks at once. “It’s incredibly difficult to create a vaccine or drug that will target all of those 160 [strains],” Barlow says. > **[Why Haven't We Cured the Common Cold Yet?](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-havent-we-cured-the-common-cold-yet/)** > > Researchers think they’re close to a cure for the common cold, but they first need to solve a complex problem that’s perplexed scientists for decades There may be only two strains of COVID-19: > **[Coronavirus: Are there two strains and is one more deadly?](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236544-coronavirus-are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/)** > > Researchers in China say there are two strains of the new coronavirus, one of which is more aggressive – but the World Health Organization says the virus is stable ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/3 "2020-03-13T00:02:41Z")
There are hundreds of cold viruses and it’s a waste of time and money to develop vaccines for just one let alone hundreds of non-life threatening viruses. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/4 "2020-03-13T00:04:46Z")
They made a SARS vaccine, and SARS is very closely related to COVID-19. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/5 "2020-03-13T00:16:40Z")
I’ll just add the higher level information: there are a few varieties of corona virus that cause cold like symptoms, but the vast majority of colds are caused by rhino viruses. Rhino viruses mutate rapidly and there are so many varieties that there is no way to easily create a vaccine. A vaccine for COVID-19, which is caused by a specific coronavirus, is comparatively easier. There is one (possibly 2) virus and some data to start with in creating the virus. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/6 "2020-03-13T00:18:06Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > They made a SARS vaccine, and SARS is very closely related to COVID-19. IIRC, none of the SARS or MERS vaccines developed have been deemed safe or effective. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/7 "2020-03-13T01:08:07Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > They made a SARS vaccine, and SARS is very closely related to COVID-19. Part I of your inference is [wrong](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/scientists-were-close-to-a-sars-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago.html) and part II is a truism. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@cornflakes2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes2)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/8 "2020-03-13T03:37:03Z")
What we need is something like an antivirus system in our bodies that can download updates so that we don’t need a vaccine for each of the hundreds of viruses but just one database system that updates us (this is obviously beyond us at the moment, but we are halfway to being cybernetic anyways). ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/9 "2020-03-13T03:44:06Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > IIRC, none of the SARS or MERS vaccines developed have been deemed safe or effective. I see that I was wrong about them making a vaccine, but they got fairly far. They got effectiveness in vivo in mice. Once there aren’t any human patients to test it on, obviously you can’t prove effectiveness, and of course the obvious need for it goes away. I guess we’ll find out now if it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/10 "2020-03-13T03:52:53Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > They made a SARS vaccine, and SARS is very closely related to COVID-19. If you are talking about Texas genetic engineering company Greffex, they previously developed a MERS vaccine, and due to the similarities have already developed a COVID-19 vaccine. In an interview the CEO also mentioned similarities to SARS. However the testing protocol will likely take 9 months in the best possible case: > **[Drug Company CEO Touts Coronavirus Vaccine By End Of Year](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/drug-company-ceo-on-fox-news-touts-his-company-for-coronavirus-vaccine-earliest-the-end-of-the-year/)** > > John Price, the CEO of Greffex, a Texas-based genetic engineering company, joined America's Newsroom on Fox News Monday morning to tout a new vaccine his company has created to combat the novel Coronavirus (COVID-19). Prior Greffex work on MERS: [https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/mers-greffex-does-it-again-2013-06-26](https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/mers-greffex-does-it-again-2013-06-26) MERS and SARS vaccines were not fully developed due to lack of funding for the required test protocol: [Scientists were close to a coronavirus vaccine years ago. Then the money dried up.](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091) BioTech company Moderna Therapeutics to begin clinical trials of COVID-19 vaccine in April 2020: [First coronavirus vaccine trial in the US is recruiting volunteers | Live Science](https://www.livescience.com/us-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-recruiting.html) Using synthetic biology to expedite vaccine development: [To develop a coronavirus vaccine, synthetic biologists try to outdo nature](https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/09/coronavirus-scientists-play-legos-with-proteins-to-build-next-gen-vaccine/) Safety tradeoffs in expedited testing: [Coronavirus vaccine clinical trial starting without usual animal data- STAT](https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/researchers-rush-to-start-moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-without-usual-animal-testing/) There are currently at least 35 different COVID-19 vaccines under development by different pharmaceutical and genetic engineering companies: [https://www.who.int/blueprint/priority-diseases/key-action/novel-coronavirus-landscape-ncov.pdf?ua=1](https://www.who.int/blueprint/priority-diseases/key-action/novel-coronavirus-landscape-ncov.pdf?ua=1) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/11 "2020-03-13T14:50:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **cornflakes2** : > > What we need is something like an antivirus system in our bodies that can download updates… That’s exactly what we have. The update downloads are called “vaccines”. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/12 "2020-03-13T17:02:43Z")
One step closer to getting a vaccine, though. [Research team has isolated the COVID-19 virus - Sunnybrook Research Institute](https://sunnybrook.ca/research/media/item.asp?c=2&i=2069&f=covid-19-isolated-2020) Never underestimate how motivated Canadians are to making sure hockey stays on… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/13 "2020-03-13T19:07:47Z")
Okay, here’s what I wonder about Covid-19 vaccine: I’ve seen it mentioned here-and-there that, as best we can tell so far, having this disease probably does _not_ confer immunity against having it again. How will a vaccine confer immunity where actually having the disease does not? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/14 "2020-03-13T19:26:13Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > They made a SARS vaccine, and SARS is very closely related to COVID-19. Cite? My daughter who was a long time copy editor for Nature claimed that despite considerable effort they did find a vaccine against SARS. I certainly hope she was wrong. See [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/scientists-were-close-to-a-sars-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/scientists-were-close-to-a-sars-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago.html) which is all I could find on the subject. Another site was behind a paywall and the free part ended before I could even see the conclusion in the abstract. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/15 "2020-03-13T20:00:03Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Okay, here’s what I wonder about Covid-19 vaccine: > > I’ve seen it mentioned here-and-there that, as best we can tell so far, having this disease probably does _not_ confer immunity against having it again. > > How will a vaccine confer immunity where actually having the disease does not? I don’t think this is accurate (or at least, there is no reason at this point to think it is accurate). What has happened is that a _small_ number of people have tested positive for the virus, and in some cases developed symptoms, after testing negative and appearing to have recovered from the illness. It seems far more likely that these people either weren’t completely recovered after all, or that their immune systems weren’t functioning properly for some reason, than that having the disease in general does not confer immunity. (We aren’t, after all, seeing _thousands_ of people getting it again after appearing to be cured, just a tiny handful of cases.) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/16 "2020-03-13T20:16:59Z")
A top Iranian cleric has [opined](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/iranian-cleric-says-coronavirus-vaccine-from-israel-would-be-ok-to-use) that it would be permissible to use a vaccine developed by the Israelis if there are no other options. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/17 "2020-03-13T23:06:08Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Cite? My daughter who was a long time copy editor for Nature claimed that despite considerable effort they did find a vaccine against SARS. I certainly hope she was wrong. > > See [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/scientists-were-close-to-a-sars-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/scientists-were-close-to-a-sars-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago.html) which is all I could find on the subject. Another site was behind a paywall and the free part ended before I could even see the conclusion in the abstract. No, there is no functioning SARS vaccine. A few had gotten as far as Phase I testing (the first phase that involves putting it in humans purely to see if it’s at all safe) but no further. There’s lots of stuff in the works but none are anywhere close. The CDC guy said they figured one was 18 months away. In pharmaceutical terms, that is INCREDIBLY fast. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/18 "2020-03-14T00:30:21Z")
Parvovirus in dogs had a vaccine developed fast , I think in around 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/19 "2020-03-14T11:59:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > …There’s lots of stuff in the works but none are anywhere close…The CDC guy said they figured one was 18 months away. In pharmaceutical terms, that is INCREDIBLY fast. As I posted above, there is at least one _functioning_ COVID-19 vaccine today (from Greffex) but it must go through testing. There is also at least one antiviral drug for COVID-19 today (Remdesivir), and has been given to some patients on “compassionate use” basis. It is not approved for general use but it exists today and has been selectively administered. Antiviral drugs might be available for more widespread use within a few months. Vaccines have a higher testing hurdle, since they are generally given to a wide population of healthy people. Thus any potential side effect is very serious, and going through the various stages of animal and human trials takes longer. By contrast antiviral drugs are given to a more limited population of ill people. To avoid raising undue expectations, availability of COVID-19 vaccines is generally described as being 12-18 months away. However there are at least 35 different pharmaceutical and genetic engineering companies working on different vaccines. Some of them say it’s theoretically possible with expedited testing and approval to have one ready by around December. In terms of the projected COVID-19 spread (on the order of several months), that is possibly too late. OTOH if COVID-19 exhibits a summer decline then resurges in autumn/winter, theoretical vaccine availability in the December timeframe could be very beneficial. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374/20 "2020-03-14T13:05:58Z")
I honestly believe a placebo would be just as effective as an actual vaccine at this point in terms of stopping the real problem: panic. Even yearly regular flu vaccines have low effective rates. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corona-virus-vaccine/849374.md?page=2)