# Coronavirus COVID-19 (2019-nCoV) Thread - 2020 Breaking News **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [February 11, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758 "2020-02-11T01:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 114
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2267 "2020-04-12T05:22:29Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > In other news, Yemen now apparently has a case. According to my best research, that only leaves North Korea, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Lesotho and some tiny islands as free of this virus. How credible is North Korea’s claim that they have no cases? > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > We will see. More-reputable sources are now reporting the idea that the Chinese lied low about their numbers all to heck. First there were rumors on conspiracy sites, but now the reports are more mainstream. > > It would be hard to imagine the Russians and the Iranians are providing good numbers. > > History will tell. Are there any estimates or guesstimates for the real Chinese figures? It would be interesting to see some links to reputable sources. I was looking at this thread, “what is the real death toll in China” [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=893152](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=893152) but the linked video wouldn’t play for me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2268 "2020-04-12T05:43:35Z")
For Wednesday’s election, the government of South Korea has [updated their infographic on how to vote](http://img.koreatimes.co.kr/upload/newsV2/images/202004/9f3ab5c68d954b1e82472535dcb134c6.jpg/dims/resize/740/optimize) during the pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2269 "2020-04-12T09:06:25Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I meant, how long should the stay at home order last. I think someone said until there’s a vaccine. No, not until there’s a vaccine, until _the majority of people are actually vaccinated_. But no, it doesn’t have to be that long - if the infection rates drop low enough a partial lifting of the stay-at-home combined with continued social distancing and enhanced hygienic practices could allow greater activity, although not back to normal. That said - stay-at-home needs to continue for _at least a couple months more_ to keep the medical systems from being (even more) overwhelmed. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2270 "2020-04-12T09:15:04Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > We will see. More-reputable sources are now reporting the idea that the Chinese lied low about their numbers all to heck. First there were rumors on conspiracy sites, but now the reports are more mainstream. > It would be hard to imagine the Russians and the Iranians are providing good numbers. > > History will tell. There was a significant jump when they started treating suspicious respiratory illness as COVID-19, which indicates that even then they lacked the ability to test everyone who had a suspicious respiratory illness. And I’m seeing the suggestion here that some people in the USA are treating heart failure as COVID-19 – which would seem reasonable in the light of the other suggestion that 4 times as many people as usual are dying from heart failure. The point is, you don’t have to believe that the Chinese lied about their numbers to believe that the numbers may not be comparable. I used to read medical research. Cause-of-death figures are notoriously rubbery. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2271 "2020-04-12T09:40:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, we dont really have good numbers for China, but why does India have only like 300 deaths? I mean, they are packed in there pretty densely, they have like five times the Population in 1/3 the space, so 15 times more crowded. > > This may explain it- no testing: > [https://www.vox.com/2020/3/24/21190868/coronavirus-india-modi-lockdown-kashmir](https://www.vox.com/2020/3/24/21190868/coronavirus-india-modi-lockdown-kashmir) > > \*Despite swift and early moves to restrict air travel, the central government’s main problem is the quality and scarcity of testing. Without the data from that testing, Indian health officials are being forced to make life-or-death decisions without reliable information about who does and who doesn’t carry Covid-19. > > “We’ve been proactive, but blindfolded,” Shamika Ravi, a health policy expert at the Brookings Institution in India, told me. > > That would be a challenge for any country, but for India it’s particularly devastating. Public health care in the country is poor. Private health care is expensive. About a quarter of the population is illiterate and thus may not be as aware of the danger. And a massive citizenry makes social distancing nearly impossible — a big issue when around 100 million people in the country are over the age of 60.\*… > > _“We expect 55 percent of the Indian people will get Covid-19 infection: 300 to 500 million cases over the next four months,” Dr. SP Kalantri, the medical superintendent of the Kasturba Hospital in central India, told me before Modi announced the lockdown. “If the current disease trajectory is anything to go by, we expect 1 million or 2 million deaths in India over a one-year period.”_ > > So, thus it is likely that India may be much higher than the official stats show. They have only tested 3 person per million, USA is 41- which is also a low number as just about the rest of the world is higher. > > another article: > [The Callousness of India’s COVID-19 Response - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/03/india-coronavirus-covid19-narendra-modi/608896/) As much as I loath the Indian Government and the dollar store Nazis who run it, testing on its own does not explain it. Lack of testing would explain asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic cases. Mild\*, severe and critical cases would still appear. Hospitals would be overwhelmed. A large number of deaths is difficult to miss, especially since it takes several days from appearance of symptoms for people to die. Same for China. \*Since even “mild” cases means several days of feeling very bad and being sick enough to be bed ridden. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2272 "2020-04-12T10:18:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As much as I loath the Indian Government and the dollar store Nazis who run it, testing on its own does not explain it. > Lack of testing would explain asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic cases. Mild\*, severe and critical cases would still appear. Hospitals would be overwhelmed. A large number of deaths is difficult to miss, especially since it takes several days from appearance of symptoms for people to die. There are a lot of extremely poor people in India. Do those people usually go to hospital when they get ill, or just suffer and hope to get better? What about those in rural areas, far from the nearest hospital? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2273 "2020-04-12T11:32:18Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > …It would be hard to imagine the Russians and the Iranians are providing good numbers. > > History will tell. Iran doesn’t have an enormous population. It made the news as one of the first large countries outside of China to have a lot of cases, but when this is done, Iran can’t possibly be in the running for “most deaths” or anything like that. Sadly, the US might be. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2274 "2020-04-12T12:13:59Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I meant, how long should the stay at home order last. I think someone said until there’s a vaccine. We observe what happens in other countries that are ahead of the US in this situation and see what happens as they relax restrictions. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Another business hurt - movie theaters. > > [AMC Theaters, a huge 630 theater chain based here in Kansas City, is filing for bankruptcy.](https://nypost.com/2020/04/10/amc-theaters-may-hire-bankruptcy-law-firm-amid-coronavirus-shutdown/)Actually there business had been in trouble before this and this put them under. I’ve heard speculation that the way we consume movies may never be the same. When quarantine ends, a movie theater is the last place I’ll want to be for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2275 "2020-04-12T14:15:38Z")
[I use this page to see how the pandemic is progressing in different countries](http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/) — is there a better page? Look at “COVID-19 Cases by Country, normalized by country population” 2/3 of the way down the page. U.S.A. is following Italy’s trajectory; only Spain is doing worse: 0.33% of population has confirmed covid-19 (highest in world?). Turkey was hard hit early, but the trajectory may be better now — reporting issue?. Thailand has imposed a lot of containment rules and is doing fairly well. Is that due to the containment regime? Or mainly due to the hot dry climate? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2276 "2020-04-12T14:27:41Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > …I’ve heard speculation that the way we consume movies may never be the same. When quarantine ends, a movie theater is the last place I’ll want to be for a long time. Yeah, watching a recording of a live show of [Jesus Christ, Superstar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpO4ohqx3os&ab_channel=TheShowsMustGoOn%21) yesterday made me long for going to see live theater. But I’m pretty satisfied seeing movies in a living room. I’m mostly happy seeing movies on my laptop. (The show is really good, by the way, and is still free today, but will cost money again after that. It’s one of the many coronavirus streaming specials people are running.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2277 "2020-04-12T14:34:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [I use this page to see how the pandemic is progressing in different countries](http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/) — is there a better page? > > Look at “COVID-19 Cases by Country, normalized by country population” 2/3 of the way down the page. U.S.A. is following Italy’s trajectory; only Spain is doing worse: 0.33% of population has confirmed covid-19 (highest in world?). Turkey was hard hit early, but the trajectory may be better now — reporting issue?. > > Thailand has imposed a lot of containment rules and is doing fairly well. Is that due to the containment regime? Or mainly due to the hot dry climate? The number I can’t find, that I’d like to see, is “number of people hospitalized for covid-19”. That seems the least likely to be distorted by differences in reporting. Of course, different countries have different abilities to hospitalize people, and US hospitalizations aren’t going to be comparable to Indian hospitalizations. But it’s probably fairly comparable across “peer countries”, except for being limited at the top end by running out of beds. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2278 "2020-04-12T14:34:15Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There are a lot of extremely poor people in India. Do those people usually go to hospital when they get ill, or just suffer and hope to get better? What about those in rural areas, far from the nearest hospital? Poor != stupid. The sub-continents peoples are very mobile and many can go easily to a hospital if need be. Plus all over India (and Pakistan), there are rural health units nearly everywhere, and they are usually the first line of treatment and have the ability to evacuate someone to a bigger hospital if needed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2279 "2020-04-12T15:05:36Z")
By way of _Daily Kos_, > **[In a Texas nursing home, Republicans are experimenting on dementia patients...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/11/1936426/-In-a-Texas-nursing-home-Republicans-are-experimenting-on-dementia-patients-to-support-Trump#read-more)** > > Starting with just the second self-praise session / coronavirus rally replacement he staged on national television, Donald Trump has touted the drug chloroquine as wonder cure for COVID-19. Over and over, despite being aware that his claims were... There’s this nursing home/extended stay in Texas lot of old folks live there, something like 87 are corona-positive. The medical expert employed there is handing out the malaria/lupus drug. Sorta kinda practicing medicine. Also, giving it to dementia patients who might be somewhat impaired in their judgement, hence cannot fully consent. Story at link. Can’t really recommend it, because it put a dark voodoo on my Sunday morning. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2280 "2020-04-12T15:41:49Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Poor != stupid. > > The sub-continents peoples are very mobile and many can go easily to a hospital if need be. Plus all over India (and Pakistan), there are rural health units nearly everywhere, and they are usually the first line of treatment and have the ability to evacuate someone to a bigger hospital if needed. The wife of a friend of mine had a baby in Mumbai last week. They had carefully chosen a maternity-only hospital long in advance, but the hospital was closed abruptly because staff tested positive. Their obstetrician managed to pull some strings to try to get another hospital to take them in the 40th week of a high-risk pregnancy, but that hospital refused to take them. I think they ended up at the 4th hospital, where they gave her an unplanned C-section because they decided labor was taking too long and just being in the hospital was risky. They discharged her with the baby 48 hours after the C-section. Her mom was supposed to come from the States to help, but obviously that isn’t happening. And the household help they had hired is unable to come, either, as apparently the lockdown has led to police beating the shit out of people who try to leave their neighborhoods. Meanwhile, apparently just getting basic foods is an issue, as in markets are running out of dal and rice. So my friend (the dad) basically has to work full-time remotely while caring for a newborn and his post-op wife. The room that was going to be the nursery is essentially unusable because there is some kind of weird platform where a bed would normally go - they had hired someone to build steps up to the platform, but that didn’t happen either, and the mom can’t climb up there while recovering from a C-section. And these are upper middle class professionals who have local family; I can’t imagine how people with fewer resources are coping. My friend said the migrant laborers who were left stranded when Modi abruptly shut down the railroads have had no choice but to try to walk to their home villages, sometimes many miles, and are being hit by vehicles along the highways. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2281 "2020-04-12T15:59:05Z")
Regarding India’s low number of deaths: Have people forgotten what an exponential curve looks like? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2282 "2020-04-12T16:03:18Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > The wife of a friend of mine had a baby in Mumbai last week. They had carefully chosen a maternity-only hospital long in advance, but the hospital was closed abruptly because staff tested positive. Their obstetrician managed to pull some strings to try to get another hospital to take them in the 40th week of a high-risk pregnancy, but that hospital refused to take them. I think they ended up at the 4th hospital, where they gave her an unplanned C-section because they decided labor was taking too long and just being in the hospital was risky. They discharged her with the baby 48 hours after the C-section. Her mom was supposed to come from the States to help, but obviously that isn’t happening. And the household help they had hired is unable to come, either, as apparently the lockdown has led to police beating the shit out of people who try to leave their neighborhoods. > > Meanwhile, apparently just getting basic foods is an issue, as in markets are running out of dal and rice. So my friend (the dad) basically has to work full-time remotely while caring for a newborn and his post-op wife. The room that was going to be the nursery is essentially unusable because there is some kind of weird platform where a bed would normally go - they had hired someone to build steps up to the platform, but that didn’t happen either, and the mom can’t climb up there while recovering from a C-section. And these are upper middle class professionals who have local family; I can’t imagine how people with fewer resources are coping. > > My friend said the migrant laborers who were left stranded when Modi abruptly shut down the railroads have had no choice but to try to walk to their home villages, sometimes many miles, and are being hit by vehicles along the highways. Oh, the Indian Government are a bunch of dumbasses who shouldn’t be permitted to run a grocery store. No doubt of that. They do stuff with an eye to the media. The lockdown was this in spades. I was talking of healthcare access. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2283 "2020-04-12T16:33:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Poor != stupid. Did I say I thought they were stupid? I don’t think so. Try reading what I wrote. It’s not that they can’t go to hospital, it’s just that they may choose not to. Hospitals are expensive and poor people may decide not to go to avoid running up a big bill that they’ll be paying off for years. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2284 "2020-04-12T16:50:45Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I was talking of healthcare access. Right. But if multiple hospitals in a gigantic major city are refusing to take patients for relatively routine issues, that also speaks to healthcare access. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2285 "2020-04-12T17:42:19Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Did I say I thought they were stupid? I don’t think so. Try reading what I wrote. > > It’s not that they can’t go to hospital, it’s just that they may choose not to. Hospitals are expensive and poor people may decide not to go to avoid running up a big bill that they’ll be paying off for years. Healthcare costs aren’t as crazy as in the US. > [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Right. But if multiple hospitals in a gigantic major city are refusing to take patients for relatively routine issues, that also speaks to healthcare access. I cannot speak for India or Maharastra. But here in Pakistan, they started to shut down nonemergency and urgent cases in hospitals in mid-March. Your friend was going to an expensive private hospital. It was canceled. Its like having planned on an expensive meal in a high-end restaurant and then finding due to rationing, reservation is cancelled and you have to eat stuff according a ration card, like everyone else. You are getting food, just not what you wanted. It’s the same. There is access. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/2286 "2020-04-12T18:14:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Healthcare costs aren’t as crazy as in the US. True, but your average poor person/family in India are much poorer than the typical US poor. And many of those with severe COVID-19 often spend a long time in hospital. It isn’t just a couple weeks and you’re better. It still could pile up a huge bill (compared to their income), even in India. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=113) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=115)