# Coronavirus COVID-19 (2019-nCoV) Thread - 2020 Breaking News **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [February 11, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758 "2020-02-11T01:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 227
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4540 "2020-09-01T14:12:51Z")
And that’s on average in the US. Pretty sure Texas cities are higher. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4541 "2020-09-01T14:14:13Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think the issue of bars is not that they are especially superfluous, it’s that they are especially dangerous. Plus, there are alternatives. We’ve been going to local breweries with outdoor seating. A trip to the men’s requires masking. Getting refills requires masking. We’ve had friends over for drinks outside. Bathroom trips are done one at a time. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4542 "2020-09-01T14:15:25Z")
I’d differentiate between bars and nightclubs. If every bar were packed continuously, that industry would be a whole hell of a lot more profitable than it is. And only a pretty small minority of them are loud like that either. Think about a wine bar or martini or jazz bar, maybe in a nice hotel, as opposed to a college joint selling dollar beers. It’s just nowhere _near_ the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4543 "2020-09-01T14:23:34Z")
Even the kinds of places we (used to) go for happy hour were still louder, more crowded and more continuous than a restaurant: lunch might be 45 minutes, but happy “hour” is usually a couple hours. Even wine bars and such tend to have small tables and people seated close together. Real estate is expensive and boring old people bars are, at least around here, often in repurposed old houses or other pretty small places. They can’t afford to have a lot of wasted space. And the background music may not be overwhelming, but it’s loud enough that you talk louder than you would standing in a quiet room. I mean, yes, a nightclub or college bar is even worse, but my memories of trivia night at the local brewpub show it hitting a lot of the same marks, just not quite as hard. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4544 "2020-09-01T14:40:52Z")
There is certainly a spectrum, but there’s no reason that can’t be accounted for in the way of capacity constraints. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4545 "2020-09-01T14:52:44Z")
I don’t think it’s just capacity. It’s structural. You’d need duration limits–a person with COVID sitting at a bar, maskless, for 2-3 hours is filling the space with virus. You need volume constraints–people yelling at each other undoes a lot of the good that distancing provides. And a lot of bars can’t do capacity constraints and stay profitable. Sure, they aren’t always packed, but the times when they are (weekend nights, game nights) pay for the other times. At some point, bars won’t feel like bars. I know I wouldn’t go if I had to leave after an hour–because usually I have a drink, then wait at least 90 minutes before I am safe to drive. Others won’t go if there’s no music. For others, bars are for mingling and meeting people. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4546 "2020-09-01T14:58:29Z")
Dancing Gnome is a brewery in Pittsburgh with an outdoor beer garden. [They are by reservation only.](https://www.dancinggnomebeer.com/reservations) You make your 1 hour 45 minute reservation for your party and are waited on by masked servers. You leave when your time is up and they disinfect your seating area for the next party. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4547 "2020-09-01T15:01:11Z")
Well, they certainly don’t feel like bars when they’re closed! I see nothing wrong with letting a neighborhood-type bar owner open with capacity constraints if he can do that and somehow manage to keep paying some bills. And in the offing, of course, let some people – those who are happy accepting the risk – still have that experience available to them. But who knows, maybe the kinds of bars I’m talking about are already able to operate as ‘restaurants’ in some places. Or maybe, though it doesn’t help the bar owner, people are still able to get that same experience in actual restaurants. Or the bar at Chili’s, for example. But then again, I hear that even restaurants aren’t allowed to serve people indoors in New York (still!). ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4548 "2020-09-01T15:02:42Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Well, they certainly don’t feel like bars when they’re closed! I see nothing wrong with letting a neighborhood-type bar owner open with capacity constraints if he can do that and somehow manage to keep paying some bills. And in the offing, of course, let some people – those who are happy accepting the risk – still have that experience available to them. Like, you don’t see anything wrong with it anywhere, no matter how much COVID is in the community? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4549 "2020-09-01T15:07:54Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Like, you don’t see anything wrong with it anywhere, no matter how much COVID is in the community? I think they should have the same guidelines as the restaurants, if they have similar structural designs. So, it would depend on that. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4550 "2020-09-01T15:11:52Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > let some people – those who are happy accepting the risk – It’s not only their risk. It’s the risk of anyone who might be in their vicinity for the next couple of weeks or longer. If everybody who goes out to a bar will then quarantine in isolation for the next two weeks, then it would be their own risk that’s the issue. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4551 "2020-09-01T15:13:55Z")
I think if you are going to do that, you need to put some constraints on both–volume and duration–that will apply more to bars but are probably good practice. Until we have a vaccine, I can’t see how people staying in loud, public places for hours can be safe. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4552 "2020-09-01T16:55:11Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It’s not only their risk. It’s the risk of anyone who might be in their vicinity for the next couple of weeks or longer. That in no way means they can’t still determine on their own if they think the risk is worth taking. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4553 "2020-09-01T17:06:37Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > That in no way means they can’t still determine on their own if they think the risk is worth taking. So you feel comfortable making the decision on behalf of someone else (really, a bunch of someone elses, many of whom you don’t even know)? Would you similarly feel comfortable with somebody you don’t know making the decision for you as to what risks YOU are going to take? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4554 "2020-09-01T17:12:40Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Would you similarly feel comfortable with somebody you don’t know making the decision for you as to what risks YOU are going to take? You mean the ones I can, or the ones I can’t? ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4555 "2020-09-01T17:25:23Z")
No, I found the article. This was the exact quote: _“We have zero percent to a 0.3 percent death rate,” said Jessica Williams, among the parents who spoke during the evening’s public comment session. “And I know it’s not nice to talk about death — we don’t want any kids to die — but we’re talking about potentially two children that could die in this district, and you’re going to disrupt the lives of 2,398 children and their families so that potentially two kids can be saved?”_ > **[At a N.H. school meeting, a parent asks, should 2 potential COVID student...](https://www.boston.com/news/education/2020/08/06/wolfeboro-new-hampshire-school-meeting/)** > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K3zbmVxvBs&feature=youtu.be Questions over mask wearing, band classes, and other concerns from parents about how COVID-19 could hamper yet another school year filled the air during a School Board meeting Monday... ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4556 "2020-09-01T17:30:16Z")
The ones you can or can’t what? What you seem to be saying is that you, as an essential worker or a neighbor or an elderly family member or my child’s teacher, etc., risk exposure to whatever viruses I pick up. You didn’t get to go to the bar in the first place, so you made no decisions about that, and you might not even know about my visit to the bar, but my decision to go bar-hopping means I’m carrying the virus now and you face exposure. I, slash2k, made the decision that the thrill of going to the bar was worth risking your exposure. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4557 "2020-09-01T17:41:25Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > That in no way means they can’t still determine on their own if they think the risk is worth taking. > [@SayTwo](#): > > You mean the ones I can, or the ones I can’t? Please clarify. Which risk exactly is it that you are comfortable taking by not following protocols (like mask wearing)? 1. _I am willing to “take the risk” of infecting SOMEONE ELSE because I might be infectious and not know it._ or are you saying 1. _Other people know the risks of being around someone without a mask, and if they want to take the chance, that’s their decision. Not my problem, nuttin’ to do with me._ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4558 "2020-09-01T18:08:11Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > That in no way means they can’t still determine on their own if they think the risk is worth taking. If they can decide for other people whether the risk is worth taking, why can’t I decide for them that the risk is not worth taking? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4559 "2020-09-01T22:10:32Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > How can anyone think that’s a good idea? Bars should be the last thing to open. People can drink at home. They can have Zoom happy hours. But bars? > > You’re clearly not from Wisconsin (I grew up there). While I agree that open bars aren’t a good idea right now, they’re a huge part of social life for many Wisconsinites. I would suspect that the lawmakers in the state were under strong pressure from both the business community (bars, supper clubs, etc.) and citizens who wanted to be able to start going to the bars again. I’m familiar with Wisconsin. Do you not think schools are important in Wisconsin? If only as day care and a social environment for kids? Bars are perhaps the most covid-dangerous thing ordinary people do. Indoors, crowded, poor ventilation, no masks, and people get drunk and make bad decisions. > [@knavette57](#): > > I very much miss my Thursday night live music with wine at the local hangout. They would bring in new talent, as well as have their house music. Guitars of all kinds, fiddle, folk songs, rock, soul, international, etc. It was great to hear singers from our town who never made it big, but who could do a tune and do it very well. I miss it, but not enough to end up on a ventiliator… I miss dancing every week. I miss playing bridge in person. I miss hanging out with friends to watch TV and eat pizza together. Right now I’m talking with you guys over the internet instead of hanging out with friends in person. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=226) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=228)