# Coronavirus COVID-19 (2019-nCoV) Thread - 2020 Breaking News **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [February 11, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758 "2020-02-11T01:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 230
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4600 "2020-09-03T09:37:59Z")
Here’s a story about confidence within your country. The propensity toward hysteria there is leaving people more frightened, in a place with next to zero virus activity, on a relative scale, cumulatively since this began, than even people in the places that have been hardest hit. > **[Cancellations 'devastating' for $5 billion conference sector](https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/425097/cancellations-devastating-for-5-billion-conference-sector)** > > Industry leaders are calling on the government to pump up its support for the conference sector as it enters into survival mode. > “We’ve been briefed on a project that is usually a large trade show and a multi-day event, clearly they don’t feel confident enough by mid October to be able to get 600 people to gather in a room.” What was gained by your lockdown in March/April if you can’t have even that event in October? Your country has invested incredibly heavily in its approach yet can’t seem to collect the benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4601 "2020-09-03T10:27:00Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Here’s a story about confidence within your country. The propensity toward hysteria there is leaving people more frightened, in a place with next to zero virus activity, on a relative scale, cumulatively since this began, than even people in the places that have been hardest hit. …do you know why I took the name “Banquet Bear?” Because I’m Papa Bear of the Sacred Order of the Banquet Bears. Because I spent 15 years working in the conference and events industry here in NZ. I managed the State Dinner for HM the Queen in 2002. I’ve worked at the Sky City Conference Centre, Te Papa, the Wellington Convention Centre, I’ve served royalty and Prime Ministers and celebrities, and worked at more hotels than you can count on my hands. I’ve done everything from wash pots to coordinating events to the value of 4 millions dollars a year. When I started my own business in 2012 the first market segment I targeted was the Conference market because I knew the market so well. So congratulations on googling an industry that I probably have more knowledge about than anyone else here on the boards. As soon as Covid hit the very first thing I did was pivot my business away from the conference sector. It was obvious what was going to happen. I talk to people every day in this industry. **I’ve worked for and with some of the people quoted in the article.** Do you think you know more about what is going on in in the conference sector than I do? > [@SayTwo](#): > > What was gained by your lockdown in March/April if you can’t have even that event in October? Like everywhere else the conference industry is just going to **have to adapt**. And they are and I know that they are because I see what they are doing, because I’ve filmed promotional pieces for venues that have flipped the services they are offering, because my bookings (all previously canceled) have started to pick up. **Its a global pandemic. The entire conference industry all over the world has been hit by this.** And nobody knows that better than me. You are acting as if the GOP and the Democratic Conventions didn’t just happen online only, that every single major convention hasn’t gone online, that this hasn’t had a major impact on the conference industry globally. You are acting as if we had widespread community spread here in NZ that would mean that the conference in question would have gone ahead regardless when we all know that wouldn’t have happened. > [@](#): > > Your country has invested incredibly heavily in its approach yet **can’t seem to collect the benefits.** We’ve only had **22 deaths**. So far nobody has died during the latest outbreak. Our economy is doing better than most other comparable countries. The schools are open, I can go to the movies, I can go and meet my friends at a cafe and have a coffee, the nations excess mortality rate is down, and the only reason Sweden is lower on the [stringency index](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&year=latest&country=IND~NZL~GBR~USA~AUS~SWE) is because we are currently in Level 2.5 but we are on track to drop back down to Level 1 very soon. We’ve collected the benefits in **lives saved**. There is no “propensity toward hysteria” here. We don’t have near “zero virus activity” because of magical thinking. We have near “zero virus activity” because that’s the better bet for the people of Aotearoa, its the better bet for the economy, its the better bet for us to have the freedom to be out and about and to do our own thing. We all know what we have to do to keep it that way, and most of us overwhelmingly approve the strategy, even though we know not every business is going to make it. Because if we don’t keep Covid out then even more businesses will fail. We will end up looking like the rest of the world. And with all due respect that isn’t looking too great at the moment. The Resurgence Strategy was an overwhelming success. Lockdown for 24 days then almost back to normal. Compare that to countries that are still lockdown harder than we are and will remain that way probably for at least another year, maybe longer. Why would we want to give up what we have? And why do we have to have this very same conversation every time I post an update? ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4602 "2020-09-03T12:13:07Z")
Nobody’s going to be administering any vaccines on Nov 1. The only purpose of that memo was to put the words vaccine and Nov 1 in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4603 "2020-09-03T12:23:27Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > Nobody’s going to be administering any vaccines on Nov 1. The only purpose of that memo was to put the words vaccine and Nov 1 in the same sentence. I have to admit I was hopeful for an moment when I saw that headline. Then I instantly remembered how politicized the CDC has become, with articles written by former officials like this one, a Nobel laureate and former head of the NIH: > **[Opinion | It Has Come to This: Ignore the C.D.C. (Published 2020)](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/31/opinion/cdc-testing-coronavirus.html)** > > The agency’s new guidelines are wrong, so states have to step up on their own to suppress the coronavirus. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4604 "2020-09-03T14:49:52Z")
I am very happy that this flare seems to have been contained, as it looked like it would be, and very much hope that all future ones can also be similarly contained, that New Zealand can keep it up for however long it takes, which is a complete unknown. On the US side Vermont is a somewhat similar circumstance and I hope the same for them. They seem to be pulling it off so far. Can I just ask for some links to back up that the New Zealand economy is, for now at least, doing better than most comparable countries? I suspect you are correct but I’m not finding good comparison numbers myself so easily. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4605 "2020-09-03T14:52:19Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We’ve only had **22 deaths**. So far nobody has died during the latest outbreak. Our economy is doing better than most other comparable countries. The schools are open, I can go to the movies, I can go and meet my friends at a cafe and have a coffee, the nations excess mortality rate is down, and the only reason Sweden is lower on the [stringency index](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&year=latest&country=IND~NZL~GBR~USA~AUS~SWE) is because we are currently in Level 2.5 but we are on track to drop back down to Level 1 very soon. I’ve been doing these things since late May. Chain theaters started opening a few weeks ago. Locally owned theaters opened in June. My state daily death average attributed to Covid has been single digits all along. The numbers for the state are about the same as a mid sized city daily newspaper obituary page. Rural and smaller city kids are in school full time. Colleges are giving it a shot. Life except for statewide mask mandate is very close to last year. Travel industry and large gatherings are hit and miss because of attendance and corporate caution, not by mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4606 "2020-09-03T19:46:47Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Can I just ask for some links to back up that the New Zealand economy is, for now at least, doing better than most comparable countries? I > **[Why the forecasters got it so wrong on the Covid unemployment rate](https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/13-08-2020/why-the-forecasters-got-it-so-wrong-on-the-covid-unemployment-rate)** > > Matt Nippert and Keith Ng pick through economic forecasts and wage subsidy and company administration data to find an economy that's doing better than anyone predicted. > [@The Spinoff](#): > > The official rate of unemployment for the three months to June declined from 4.2 to 4%, dramatically undercutting predictions from both bank and government forecasters who earlier in the year were picking that number to be at least double. > > … > > This is still far from what was being forecast. Even the central government boffins at Treasury, preparing for the budget in May, reckoned we’d this week be hitting 8.3%. A month earlier, as the country teetered on the brink of an uncontainable outbreak, worst-case modelling had a full quarter of the workforce unemployed. > > The June quarter was a tale of two dramatically contrasting halves, bookended by one the world’s most restrictive lockdowns in April before transitioning into one of the globe’s most relaxed regimes by June. This whiplash may explain why predictions have had such difficulty getting any grounding. > > Small business payments data from accounting firm Xero showed revenue plunged 39% in March, but had almost completely recovered to 2019 levels by June. Our extremes – both in shutdown and in bounceback – far outstrip similar figures from Australia and the United Kingdom. > > A predicted wave of insolvencies flowing from the downturn has also yet to even hint at an appearance. Analysis by the Herald of wage subsidy recipients, and Companies Office liquidation data, shows only one in 1,000 companies – under 100 firms – who flagged financial problems and sought subsidy assistance have collapsed. The rate of company administrations in June and July are actually down 50% on a year earlier, although the wage subsidy schemes and changes to the treatment of insolvency sparked by the crisis may be only delaying this wave breaking rather than holding it back completely. > … > > In Australia, unemployment has already reached 7.4%. In the United States the crisis has seen this rate leap to 14.7%. And on the GDP front, the pandemic has caused unprecedented carnage around the world. As the early stage of the Covid crisis began disrupting tourism and export markets, Australia broke its 29-year run without a recession with a 0.3 quarter contraction to March and much worse is expected to come. > > In the UK, GDP is estimated to have contracted 19.1% in the three months to May. US quarterly figures to June showed economic activity declined 9.5%, a cataclysmic drop the New York Times noted was likely only matched in modern history by the aftermath of post World War II demobilisation or during the depths of the Great Depression. > [@PoppaSan](#): > > I’ve been doing these things since late May. New Zealand was Covid-free for over 100 days. We haven’t had a Covid-death since May. We raised our alert levels with the mystery resurgence about a month ago which has limited event sizes in our biggest city: but these are likely to be removed once we drop back down the alert levels soon. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4607 "2020-09-03T21:37:03Z")
I have to admit I get confused when it comes to making comparisons of economies. My simplistic bottom line is GDP. > **[Weekly Economic Update - 28 August 2020](https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/weu/weekly-economic-update-28-august-2020-html)** > > Weekly Economic Update 28 August 2020 The list of GDP comparisons there seems to put NZ as pretty average. Income falling dramatically which just has not happened there before. But that clearly is not a complete picture. Is there some site that compares metrics comprehensively? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4608 "2020-09-03T22:05:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The list of GDP comparisons there seems to put NZ as pretty average. Income falling dramatically which just has not happened there before. …“pretty average” is pretty fucking good considering the fact the world is in the middle of a global pandemic. Income falling dramatically **obviously** hasn’t happened here before. Because we are in the middle of a pandemic. And the comparison graph that I think you are looking at doesn’t include the New Zealand Q2 numbers, which from searching looks like they will be released mid-September. Q1 was measured [month-end March](https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/gross-domestic-product-gdp), so the table doesn’t actually tell us **anything** about post-lockdown GDP for NZ. > [@DSeid](#): > > But that clearly is not a complete picture. Is there some site that compares metrics comprehensively? I’m pretty sure there probably is, and you are welcome, if you wish, to take the time seek them out. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4609 "2020-09-03T22:26:53Z")
> **[GDP and spending - Quarterly GDP - OECD Data](https://data.oecd.org/gdp/quarterly-gdp.htm)** > > Find, compare and share OECD data by indicator. Below the graph there is a “Countries” menu. Click and under “Background” select “All.” Note that New Zealand’s Q2 numbers aren’t displayed yet (as of Sept 3, 2020), so the -1.59% isn’t accurate - that’s from Q1 2020. Tough to find Q2 GDP forecasts for NZ. [This article](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-zealand-economy-shrank-in-q1-q2-likely-worse-2020-06-17) suggests “the economy” is going to shrink by 20% in Q2. It’s unclear to me if that’s an apples to apples comparison. I’d imagine NZ’s official Q2 numbers should be out soon. > The 310 billion New Zealand dollar ($200 billion) economy shrank 1.6% in the January-March period from the previous quarter, Statistics New Zealand said Thursday, ending nine years of expansion. > > A Wall Street Journal poll of economists had forecast the economy to contract 1.0%. Forecasters say the economy will contract about 20% in the second quarter. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4610 "2020-09-04T03:23:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The list of GDP comparisons there seems to put NZ as pretty average. Income falling dramatically which just has not happened there before. > > But that clearly is not a complete picture. Is there some site that compares metrics comprehensively? New Zealand uses a happiness index as an indicator for the wealth of its citizens. > **[New Zealand Ditches GDP For Happiness And Wellbeing](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/07/11/new-zealand-ditches-gdp-for-happiness-and-wellbeing/)** > > Recently, GDP has come under scrutiny as a planning tool, with some decision-makers turning instead to the Happiness Index, a marker that focuses on the wellbeing of the citizens rather than an economic bottom line. In New Zealand, Prime Minister... > [@](#): > > Recently, GDP has come under scrutiny as a planning tool, with some decision-makers turning instead to the [Happiness Index](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/01/bhutan-wealth-happiness-counts), a marker that focuses on the wellbeing of the citizens rather than an economic bottom line. This Index would help governments use their budgets with the aim to increase the welfare of its citizens instead of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product > . . . > GDP has had mixed results when trying to illustrate the welfare of the people. As an economic tool, it only makes assumptions about the basic standards of living, which can be different across the socioeconomic spectrum of a nation. Additionally, better standards of living do not necessarily equate to better welfare, with the latter affected by a range of factors including but not limited to mental wellbeing, cultural resilience, and environmental health. > > Nobel Prize-winning economist and designer of the modern GDP Simon Kuznets [noted himself](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12240840) in 1934: “The welfare of a nation can scarcely be inferred from a measurement of national income.” GDP, which had been used in one form or another since 1654, was reworked to its current state in 1934 when Kuznets presented a report to the US Congress regarding national wealth. However, as he expressed at the time, it should not be used as more than an economic tool to set an economic value of a country’s production power, and that equating GDP to citizen welfare would be [over-simplifying](https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/971) a very complex situation. > . . . > As Finance Minister Grant Robertson [points out](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/14/new-zealands-world-first-wellbeing-budget-to-focus-on-poverty-and-mental-health), the economic growth of a nation should not come at the cost of its citizens: “Sure, we had – and have – GDP growth rates that many other countries around the world envied, but for many New Zealanders, this GDP growth had not translated into higher living standards or better opportunities. How could we be a rockstar, they asked, with homelessness, child poverty and inequality on the rise?” The coronavirus gives another stark example of how measuring the wrong thing will give bad results. Putting profit ahead of people’s lives benefits relatively few people at the expense of the vast majority of people who live fearful, desperate and unhappy lives. The US has the highest suicide rates in decades, high rates of mental health issues and many other societal issues caused by measuring the wrong metrics in terms of societal wealth and well-being. New Zealand has a much more progressive stance, placing the well-being of its citizens above a metric that wasn’t meant to measure societal wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4611 "2020-09-04T03:28:18Z")
I don’t see this posted anywhere above this, so sorry if my search failed. This article is intensely interesting, though I have no expertise to judge how medically compelling it is. Still, they are claiming it explains most of the Covid symptoms and even the aftereffects. > **[A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged](https://diylifetech.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63)** > > A closer look at the Bradykinin hypothesis ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4612 "2020-09-04T03:30:17Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > The coronavirus gives another stark example of how measuring the wrong thing will give bad results. And it does it in many, many ways. And in spades. Seemingly every single day. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4613 "2020-09-04T03:50:17Z")
Okay. When you had stated that New Zealand’s economy was doing better than most it had sounded like a very reasonable and likely true statement that you stated based on some actual knowledge, that you could point me to for my education. Instead it seems that better than most means average at best, that you have no factual basis for the claim. Maybe it will turn out to be the case for Q2. It would not surprise. There was no intent at a gotcha here: I really had assumed other than that you were making it up when you stated something as fact. Thanks @Trom for the link. Very helpful! A happiness index may be a worthwhile tool but I wouldn’t offer it as evidence of an economic claim, even if one defines happiness as so measured as wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4614 "2020-09-04T04:01:49Z")
Waaaay outside my field [and had to look up what a bradykinin was] but it seems these bradykinins are also implicated in some types of cancer. if so, there may be significant long-term health impacts for those who feel they dodged a bullet with a mild or asymptomatic case. Not that I am convinced at all they even have a coherent case to start with, but the herd immunity approach could be far less beneficial than its advocates are claiming based on a history of less than a year of exposures and monitoring. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4615 "2020-09-04T04:03:02Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I don’t see this posted anywhere above this, so sorry if my search failed. This article is intensely interesting, though I have no expertise to judge how medically compelling it is. Still, they are claiming it explains most of the Covid symptoms and even the aftereffects. > > [A Supercomputer's Covid-19 Analysis Yields a New Way to Understand the Virus | DIY Life Tech](https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63) I saw this two days ago and found it to be very interesting. They’re saying that instead of a cytokine storm, there may be a bradykinin storm. Bradykinin is a small peptide hormone that promotes vasodilation under certain stimuli like inflammation. Interestingly, ACE inhibitors used to treat high blood pressure also tend to increase bradykinin levels. Side effects can include things like a mild dry cough and fatigue. I’m assuming that a bradykinin storm would then be a more serious dry cough and fatigue. The scarier signs and symptoms of Covid 19 most strongly mimic a bradykinin storm which is associated with severe vascular permeability (leaky blood vessels). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4616 "2020-09-04T04:20:53Z")
26,471,718 total cases 873,223 dead 18,664,286 recovered In the US: 6,335,244 total cases 191,058 dead 3,575,096 recovered Yesterday’s numbers for comparison: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > 26,177,603 total cases > 867,347 dead > 18,442,307 recovered > > In the US: > > 6,290,737 total cases > 189,964 dead > 3,547,032 recovered ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4617 "2020-09-04T04:34:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A happiness index may be a worthwhile tool but I wouldn’t offer it as evidence of an economic claim, even if one defines happiness as so measured as wealth. You might not, but some economists have. > [@](#): > > [Lionel Robbins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Robbins) (1932) developed implications of what has been termed “[p]erhaps the most commonly accepted current definition of the subject”:[[20]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics#cite_note-BackhouseMedema2009-21) > > > Economics is a science which studies [human behaviour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_behaviour) as a relationship between ends and scarce means which have alternative uses > [@](#): > > Welfare economics uses microeconomics techniques to evaluate [well-being](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-being) from [allocation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocation_of_resources) of [productive factors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factors_of_production) as to desirability and [economic efficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_efficiency) within an [economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy), often relative to competitive [general equilibrium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_equilibrium).[[121]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics#cite_note-130) It analyzes _social [welfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare)_ , however [measured](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_welfare_function), in terms of economic activities of the individuals that compose the theoretical society considered. Accordingly, individuals, with associated economic activities, are the [basic units](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodological_individualism) for aggregating to social welfare, whether of a group, a community, or a society, and there is no “social welfare” apart from the “welfare” associated with its individual units. from [economics wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics) > [@](#): > > Happiness economics is the formal academic study of the relationship between individual satisfaction and economic issues such as employment and [wealth](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wealth.asp). Happiness economics attempts to use [econometric](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/econometrics.asp) analysis to discover what factors increase and decrease human well-being and quality of life. from [Investopedia](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/happiness-economics.asp) > [@](#): > > [Neoclassical](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoclassical_economics), as well as [classical economics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_economics), are not subsumed under the term _happiness economics_ although the original goal was to increase the happiness of the people. Classical and neoclassical economics are stages in the development of [welfare economics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_economics) and are characterized by mathematical modeling. Happiness economics represents a radical break with this tradition. The measurement of _subjective_ happiness respectively [life satisfaction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_satisfaction) by means of [survey research](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_research) across nations and time (in addition to objective measures like lifespan, wealth, security etc.) marks the beginning of happiness economics. from [Happiness economics wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_economics) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4618 "2020-09-04T04:35:11Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > I saw this two days ago and found it to be very interesting. Which quotes an article from July, on an idea that has been around from March at least. Interesting how some ideas (quinine) get all the publicity, and other ideas float under the surface. Clinical trials on some of the bradykinin ideas started in April, and should be showing results in September. For example Methylene Blue – which may interfere with the bradykinin process, or may actually be a disinfectant doctors can inject into your veins (both have been suggested) MB is cheap, available, has known thearaputic applications, has particularly been suggested for poor countries, and (I think) been listed in India as one of the therapies doctors shouldn’t be just trying ‘because some of the patients got better after a couple of weeks’ ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4619 "2020-09-04T04:41:15Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > may actually be a disinfectant doctors can inject into your veins Damn – Trump was ahead of the curve. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=229) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=231)