# Coronavirus COVID-19 (2019-nCoV) Thread - 2020 Breaking News **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [February 11, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758 "2020-02-11T01:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 232
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4640 "2020-09-05T15:41:44Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > > [@MandaJo](#): > > > > I think if there’s anything to the bradykinin ideas, that would be another way that flu sent us on the wrong path: the flu of 1918 turned out to have cytotine storm as It’smost deadly element, and we focused on that. > > These pathways seriously overlap because they’re both involved in inflammation. I suspect for very sick people, you can have both storms going on at the same time. Reminds me of when trauma or sepsis patients have disseminated intravascular coagulation. They’re blood starts clotting all over the place within vessels. As feedback (and running out of clotting factors), they start bleeding. Apparently, it’s a major clusterfuck to treat. Just give them blood and cross your fingers. This seems to be what’s happening with severe covid patients. Cross your fingers. > > Btw, another paper came out about steroid therapy. Still looks like the best treatment we have so far. So… Poking around, I’m seeing three possible medical advances in treating this: - Steroids to generally dampen overactive immune response and cytokinin storm. - Anticoagulants (there’s another thread on this). - Various drugs that dampen the bradykinin pathway. That seems promising. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4641 "2020-09-05T15:52:04Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > Federal and state investigators raided a Pennsylvania nursing home Thursday where hundreds of residents and staff members tested positive for coronavirus and dozens have died, authorities said. My daughter and her fiancé live/work in Beaver County. At one point the _only_ Covid cases in the county were at the nursing home. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4642 "2020-09-05T16:58:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You have the U.S. and Sweden with similar contractions as Denmark, Japan, and Australia, and better than Germany and Canada all with much better death rates. You’ve got to look to South Korea, Viet Nam, and China to find significantly less contraction Q2 than the U.S. and Sweden. It’s a squint to see that “appears”. It’s pretty hard to find a scatter plot without completely dependent variables that doesn’t have any outliers. That doesn’t change the trend line which shows a very real correlation. No “squinting” required. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4643 "2020-09-05T17:18:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > homogenous homogen **e** ous End of hijack… ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4644 "2020-09-05T19:59:41Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > > [@DSeid](#): > > > > homogenous > > homogen **e** ous > > End of hijack… Decriptivism vs. Prescriptivism … > **[Homogenous vs. homogeneous](https://grammarist.com/usage/homogenous-homogeneous/)** > > Homogeneous: (1) of the same or similar nature, and (2) uniform in structure or composition. Homogenous: a scientific word now very often used in place of homogeneous in popular usage. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4646 "2020-09-05T20:05:28Z")
Good timing on the first bullet. JAMA Online today released multiple studies on this topic, plus an editorial summary of them: > **[Corticosteroids in COVID-19 ARDS](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2770275)** > > Corticosteroids, such as hydrocortisone and dexamethasone, have anti-inflammatory, antifibrotic, and vasoconstrictive effects, which intensivists have been trying to leverage for decades to improve outcomes in patients with acute respiratory distress... Basically the corticosteroids are effective where there’s acute respiratory distress syndrome, but the appropriate dosage isn’t clear, and there’s still the issue of studies that show that the steroids also delayed recovery. So progress, but not quite there yet. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4647 "2020-09-05T20:07:49Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > - Steroids to generally dampen overactive immune response and cytokinin storm. > - Anticoagulants (there’s another thread on this). > - Various drugs that dampen the bradykinin pathway. > > That seems promising. Yes, and these drugs would only be used when people get very sick or after they recover from being very sick so that they don’t go through the reported crash. Other people would only receive the antivirals. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4648 "2020-09-05T20:14:01Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Basically the corticosteroids are effective where there’s acute respiratory distress syndrome, but the appropriate dosage isn’t clear, and there’s still the issue of studies that show that the steroids also delayed recovery. > > So progress, but not quite there yet. Yes. I think they might also be useful for patients with signs of stroke, renal and other cardiovascular issues. As you state, there is the risk of delaying recovery so they’re only being used when things get serious. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4649 "2020-09-06T04:08:48Z")
27,065,789 total cases 883,742 dead 19,165,962 recovered In the US: 6,431,152 total cases 192,818 dead 3,707,000 recovered Yesterday’s numbers for comparison: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > 26,795,701 total cases > 878,963 dead > 18,907,047 recovered > > In the US: > > 6,389,057 total cases > 192,111 dead > 3,635,854 recovered ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4650 "2020-09-06T05:53:21Z")
Our new two-week lockdown here on Oahu is supposed to end this coming Thursday, the 10th. But no one thinks it will. Everyone expects a two-week extension. Our daily new-case numbers are still in the 200s and 300s every day, the vast majority on Oahu. The state’s lieutenant governor, who is an MD, says new cases need to be 150 or fewer per day to be assured of not overloading the hospital system. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4651 "2020-09-06T06:55:47Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Results from Deloitte graph up very nicely. I’ve tried to reproduce them, but with a trend line (and descriptive model) included. [https://public.tableau.com/profile/dmc7541#!/vizhome/COVID-19DeathsandEconomicGrowth/DeathandGrowth-aDeloitteinfluencedjam](https://public.tableau.com/profile/dmc7541#!/vizhome/COVID-19DeathsandEconomicGrowth/DeathandGrowth-aDeloitteinfluencedjam) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4652 "2020-09-06T17:14:57Z")
FWIW I plugged the numbers into an app to calculate R and p (leaving out the EU as that seemed double dipping to include some member countries and the EU as a whole) and got a R roughly 0.75 with p 0.05. There are 38 individual counties that have reported Q2 GDP on the source that @Trom provided. I would be nice to see the Deloitte person having included them all, rather than only a small subset of them. I _suspect_ the association would be stronger, not weaker, if they did, but not including all the points always gives an eyebrow raise, especially when the apparent trend line is driven so much by just two European countries with both relatively very high death rates and exceptionally big contractions, and four Asian nations with low death rates and exceptionally small to no contractions. I realize the point I am about to make may seem argumentative for its own sake, but I really do wonder - it seems to me that we might consider that the causation is as implied by having GDP change on the X-axis: fragile/vulnerable economies resulted in high death rates, while resilient economies were able to mount responses that kept death rates relatively low (exceptions being the resilient economies that by choice or poor leadership allowed greater spread to occur: Sweden and the U.S.) ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4653 "2020-09-06T17:32:44Z")
I had the same reaction, so I just dropped 40 different countries into a graph. I was just coming back to the thread to make sure my numbers tied to what was there, I’ll post in a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4654 "2020-09-06T17:41:00Z")
I’ve only been using Tableau for a little while, does this work? [https://public.tableau.com/views/GDPandCOVID/Dashboard1?:language=en&:display\_count=y&publish=yes&:origin=viz\_share\_link](https://public.tableau.com/views/GDPandCOVID/Dashboard1?:language=en&:display_count=y&publish=yes&:origin=viz_share_link) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4655 "2020-09-06T17:49:42Z")
Yes, and thank you for doing that. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4656 "2020-09-06T17:54:45Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I’ve only been using Tableau for a little while, does this work? Nice work! I downloaded your workbook and swapped the X and Y axes and reversed the Y axis to match the Deloitte plot. I also added a trendline to see if it still held true. Here is the sheet with those modifications. [https://public.tableau.com/profile/dmc7541#!/vizhome/GDPandCOVID\_15994146814380/Sheet2](https://public.tableau.com/profile/dmc7541#!/vizhome/GDPandCOVID_15994146814380/Sheet2) ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4657 "2020-09-06T18:05:11Z")
I had no idea you could download datasets from Tableau, is that always true? I’ve never thought to look there for data. I added a trendline to mine. It’s funny how different they look with switched axes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4658 "2020-09-06T18:16:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The NEJM just published a fascinating article [from Iceland](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2026116). Just catching up on this thread. This is very good news, I’m surprised this study hasn’t gained more attention. Large unbiased sample, long period (4 months), multiple serological tests targeting different antibody isotypes and specificities… and it contradicts ( **and explains** ) earlier worrying studies that suggested humoral immune response may fade quickly. This is good news for the likely efficacy of a vaccine, and for the probability of reinfection. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4659 "2020-09-06T18:32:11Z")
It’s up to the author what can be downloaded. Tableau Public is a bit different from the paid versions in that your data has to be embedded in the workbook (.twbx vs. a twb) or it won’t work. With the paid versions, that’s an option, but live connections are also fine. Since you’re new, and since the majority of authors don’t typically lock down their Public work, you might want to find interesting graphs in the Gallery and click download to look at how they are done. The download button is on the bottom right, below the chart. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4660 "2020-09-06T19:00:26Z")
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