# Coronavirus COVID-19 (2019-nCoV) Thread - 2020 Breaking News **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [February 11, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758 "2020-02-11T01:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 246
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4923 "2020-09-28T16:08:58Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You lost me. Are you saying the general public should decide whether they want to wear masks, observe social distancing, etc.? Certain rules/laws/actions are entirely within reason, I’m sure. Like, maybe a city doesn’t want to issue a permit for a gathering of thousands. Maybe it decides to shut down its public transport. But deciding on your own whether to wear a mask (if it is indeed clear that wearing a mask protects the wearer) or how close to stand to someone (or even if you can be in the same room with them)? Deciding you’ll take the risk if it means that you can be with your loved one as they die or are buried? Sure. Why not. I think another theme that runs through this whole ordeal is that ‘the general public’ is not given near enough credit. No, people are not just hopelessly stupid or ignorant compared to virologists or prime ministers. When there are clear threats, people do what they have to do. Always have, always will. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Having the public vote on how to deal with the pandemic strikes me as much dumber than the junkiest _junk science_ . Well, all I can say to that is that I wholeheartedly disagree. But again, I’m not someone who doesn’t give the great unwashed zero credit. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4924 "2020-09-28T16:17:54Z")
Big day in Panama today. Most businesses are being allowed to reopen, including retail stores and restaurants for in-person service. A curfew remains from 11 PM to 5 PM, and all day on Sunday. (I can’t imagine why the latter is still in effect. All the curfews will be lifted October 12.) The main things still to reopen are hotels, tourism activities, and international flights, which will come back on October 12. However, as far as I know there is no definite schedule at present to reopen bars, discos, movie theaters, or public attendance at sporting events. The number of new cases, now in the mid-600s per day, has been holding steady or declining very slowly for the past 3 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4925 "2020-09-28T16:23:55Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Maybe it decides to shut down its public transport. But deciding on your own whether to wear a mask (if it is indeed clear that wearing a mask protects the wearer) or how close to stand to someone (or even if you can be in the same room with them)? Deciding you’ll take the risk if it means that you can be with your loved one as they die or are buried? Sure. Why not. Even though, as has been pointed out many, _ **many** _ times in this and other threads about the virus on this board, that decision almost _never_ only affects the individual making the decision. If that person winds up becoming infected and contagious, that person’s decision to do things like not wear a mask, and ignore social distancing recommendations, can affect other people. It can make other people sick, and it can kill other people. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4926 "2020-09-28T17:15:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > If that person winds up becoming infected and contagious, that person’s decision to do things like not wear a mask, and ignore social distancing recommendations, can affect other people. It can make other people sick, and it can kill other people. I wonder what the mental health burden is like on those who have survived the disease. I wonder how many of them carry around every day the deaths of their neighbors. Like, I wonder if they are haunted every time they read the numbers in the news, particularly if they hear reports for their own state or city. I wonder if they think, “If only, if only. If only I had stayed home that day.” I wonder what the long-term effect of that kind of guilt is likely to be. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4927 "2020-09-28T17:45:25Z")
Like the couple that held that wedding in Maine. Gee, I bet they’ll have a good time celebrating on their anniversaries. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4928 "2020-09-28T19:22:40Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > But deciding on your own whether to wear a mask (if it is indeed clear that wearing a mask protects the wearer) or how close to stand to someone (or even if you can be in the same room with them)? You know, of course, that the primary purpose of wearing a mask is to protect others in case the wearer, knowingly or unknowingly, is carrying the virus. I’m pretty sure you know this. I mean, of course you do. Everyone does at this point. So it’s not about the wearers/non-wearers decidding for themselves whether or not to take the risk. It’s whether or not some libertarian nonsense about personal choice allows one to possibly exposed everyone you come in contact with to a potentially fatal, and certainly miserable, illness, which they in turn may pass on to others. I mean, serously? You don’t know this? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4929 "2020-09-28T19:37:57Z")
Oh, I thought the protection went both ways. Like, the mask could trap particles both on the way out and on the way in. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4930 "2020-09-28T19:45:23Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Oh, I thought the protection went both ways. Like, the mask could trap particles both on the way out and on the way in. But you just said: > [@SayTwo](#): > > But deciding on your own whether to wear a mask **(if it is indeed clear that wearing a mask protects the wearer)** or how close to stand to someone (or even if you can be in the same room with them)? If you thought it went both ways, why did you say that bolded part? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4931 "2020-09-28T19:48:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If you thought it went both ways, why did you say that bolded part? Because if it protects the wearer, presumably everyone who wants the protection can get it, thus not leaving their own risk up to the behavior of others. (And those who feel comfortable taking the risk with their own health can then roll the dice as they see fit.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4932 "2020-09-28T19:52:55Z")
But you said you know it protects BOTH. Why would you comment on only what one person wants? Why is that person’s wants more important to you than the other person’s wants? There is no “rolling the dice” only with one person’s health at stake, as you just acknowledged: it protects BOTH the wearer AND others. Anyone without a mask is not just endangering themselves, but potentially everyone they come in contact with. Yet your concern is only for one of the two people. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4933 "2020-09-28T19:53:35Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Oh, I thought the protection went both ways. Like, the mask could trap particles both on the way out and on the way in. Most of the research points towards the primary function being to protect others (i.e., if you are contagious, but are wearing a mask, you are less likely to spread the virus when you exhale), but there does appear to be possibly be a level of protection to the wearer, as well. As per [Harvard Health](https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/preventing-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus): > [@](#): > > ### **Who do masks protect: the wearer, others, or both?** > > We’ve known for some time that masks help prevent people from spreading the coronavirus to others. Based on an analysis of existing information, a new study contends that masks may also protect mask wearers from becoming infected themselves. > > Different masks, writes the study author, block viral particles to varying degrees. If masks lead to lower “doses” of virus being inhaled, then fewer people may become infected, and those who do may have milder illness. > > Researchers in China experimented with hamsters to test the effect of masks. They put healthy hamsters and hamsters infected with SARS-CoV-2 (the COVID-19 coronavirus) in a cage, and separated some of the healthy and infected hamsters with a barrier made of surgical masks. Many of the “masked” healthy hamsters did not get infected, and those who did got less sick than previously healthy “maskless” hamsters. > > A similar experiment cannot ethically be done in humans. But researchers have studied doses of flu virus and found that people who inhaled a higher dose of flu virus were more likely to get sick and experience symptoms. Observations of coronavirus outbreaks in processing plants and on cruise ships also support the idea that masks may help protect mask wearers. > > Without more research, we can’t be certain that masks protect the wearer. But we do know they don’t hurt, and that they protect others. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4934 "2020-09-28T19:55:06Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > (And those who feel comfortable taking the risk with their own health can then roll the dice as they see fit.) Except, once again, those who feel comfortable “rolling the dice” are _ **not** _ just rolling the dice for their own health, but for other people with whom they interact, especially because the current research indicates that the primary function of a mask is to protect others. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4935 "2020-09-28T19:57:06Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Because if it protects the wearer, presumably everyone who wants the protection can get it, thus not leaving their own risk up to the behavior of others. (And those who feel comfortable taking the risk with their own health can then roll the dice as they see fit.) The more virus that’s in the air, the more virus that can end up on the person’s body, clothing, in the eyes, etc. Even if they’re wearing a mask, the higher viral load means that people are at greater risk through contact contamination or by the virus entering through other nasal membranes. People can go around in hazmat suits for total protection, but that’s not necessary if everyone is wearing masks. With everyone wearing mask, the total risk is lowered since there is less virus in the environment. But I will say that people who wear improvised or simple cloth masks can’t really complain too much about people not wearing masks. At the beginning we all had to improvise with whatever we had around the house, but that’s not the case anymore. Surgical and KN95 masks are sold in grocery stores, masks with filters are widely available, and even N95 masks are available in some places. Simple cloth masks provide the most basic protection for the wearer and the environment. While they are better than nothing, they are much worse than one of the better solutions which can filter in the 90% range. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4936 "2020-09-28T20:12:11Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > if it protects the wearer, presumably everyone who wants the protection can get it Can you seriously not know at this point that only N95 masks with no exhale valve provide such protection [ETA: enough so that the other person doesn’t need also to be wearing a mask], that even those don’t if they slip out of position, that not everyone can breathe well in them, that they do not protect the eyes, and that in any case there aren’t anywhere near enough of them available to go around? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4937 "2020-09-28T20:24:33Z")
Nor are not easily affordable for many of us, including many of us at highest risk? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4938 "2020-09-28T20:28:29Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Oh, I thought the protection went both ways. Like, the mask could trap particles both on the way out and on the way in. OK. So you know the mask protects others, and you still think mask-wearing should be a matter of individual choice? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4939 "2020-09-28T21:32:31Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > OK. So you know the mask protects others, and you still think mask-wearing should be a matter of individual choice? I’m not really sure what to believe myself, given how soft the experimental science seems to be on the matter, but my hunch would be that in most of the everyday sorts of situations, the average person gets more protection from the one on their own face than from the ones on the (often not so near) faces of others. But my point was that those who are really committed to masks as something that they believe greatly reduces the spread of the virus will always have the benefit of the one they wear. I’m a bit surprised to see the opinions here that people benefit from the masks of others more than they do their own, because I’ve always thought it was believed to be the other way round. Like, I wouldn’t expect anyone to walk into a room, see no one wearing a mask, and take their own off because what’s the point. Frankly, that seems more than a little silly. But at any rate, the discussion started as a question of what measures seemed reasonable. I’m all for everyone wearing a mask in a crowded concert hall or similar situations where most people will have great opportunity to infect or be infected by very many other people. But I think those situations are generally, for most people, few and far between. Wearing masks in just about any outdoor situation seems ridiculous to me. Or in a non-crowded restaurant when you need to use the restroom. That kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4940 "2020-09-29T01:53:26Z")
A million dead! Who would have thought Our figureheads Would come to naught? Would go ahead - All afterthoughts, To fight the spread With diddly squat. With gingerbread And counterplots. With blunderheads And tommyrot. Just stay in bed And don’t get caught. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4941 "2020-09-29T02:00:15Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > What I am against is junk science. Or, junk science on the one hand, and public policy being absolutely sacrificed at the altar of, at best, terribly narrowly focused epidemiology on the other. I hope I’m not breaking board rules, but what is your area of expertise? ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758/4942 "2020-09-29T02:02:20Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > given how soft the experimental science seems to be on the matter, but my hunch would be that in most of the everyday sorts of situations, the average person gets more protection from the one on their own face than from the ones on the (often not so near) faces of others. Again, what is your expertise in this area? Which current paper have you read that suggests that the experimental science is “soft”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=245) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-covid-19-2019-ncov-thread-2020-breaking-news/847758.md?page=247)