Austria is not a “well-vaccinated” country.
255,141,123 total cases
5,130,689 dead
230,663,594 recovered
In the US:
48,161,377 total cases
786,268 dead
38,139,928 recovered
Yesterday’s numbers for comparison:
I wasn’t speaking directly about Austria and the term “well vaccinated” is not precisely defined but two thirds of the population and the vast majority of those at risk have been vaccinated. They are starting to vaccinate the 5-11 range.
There is no shortage of vaccine and anyone who wants one can have one.
In such a situation, with such levels, I think it reasonable for a country to choose pandemic management wihout resorting to very restrictive lockdowns of the type in place in Austria and proposed elsewhere. How acceptable those restrictions are to the population remain to be seen.
I also note that there’s a growing sense of injustice in a lot of the vaccinated. A lot of us want the unvaccinated to have to experience consequences for their actions. It is disturbing to me how few consequences there have been for the antivaxxers as a whole (and not just the individuals who catch the virus and suffer or die), despite them being responsible for so much damage. It portends that things won’t be any better in the next pandemic.
Personally, I would be more likely to vote for a politician who put more restraints—with teeth—on the unvaccinated rather than putting restraints on everyone, or just giving “recommendations” they know the antivaxxers won’t follow.
That is, assuming that such does not make things significantly worse. I’d prefer it made things significantly better, but just parity would be sufficient to support such measures.
Heck, it’s not even entirely about the pandemic. I’m wary of even being around any antivaxxer. I’m not joking when I say I don’t trust them not to figuratively stab me in the back. They either care more about their own convenience than right or wrong, or they are easily swayed by malevolent people who would tell them to do wrong. The pandemic and people’s reactions completely changed my view of the world.
There is more to consider than just how many more people get vaccinated. Again, I wouldn’t want the numbers to get worse than they would otherwise, but their getting better isn’t my only concern.
Given that the rate of new infections here is now twice as high as it’s ever been, and as of today corpses are literally piling up in the hallways of hospitals, what sort of non-restrictive pandemic management measures do you believe would be most appropriate?
I’m in no way arguing for no restrictions and I’d be far less concerned with infection numbers overall but more with hospitalisation demographics and deaths (which are still far lower than previous waves)
I think the existing masking and vaccine passport requirements, if properly enforced, were probably a decent balance and the current wave will stabilise and subside with or without fully locking down the unvaccinated. They were already unable to access high-risk situations.
The response to these situations is always a balancing act and other countries have shown that similar levels of vaccination but with far less restrictions can still mean that the pandemic does not surge out of control.
I don’t think that the decision to lockdown the unvaccinated is unequivocally the best option. It may work in the short term and the optics are certainly striking but the jury is out on whether it ends up being the best thing to do and it is certainly not the only option out there.
Vermont has retreated from its peak, but New Hampshire has a new record high of 1037 as of two days ago.
Although nobody else is in danger of setting a new record, cases are increasing in several states, such as Minnesota. And the US, as a whole, after decreasing for the past couple of months, appears to be rising again.
And we still have the highest reported new case load in the entire world. By far. About twice as much as our nearest competitors, the UK, Russia, and Germany.
I don’t think I’ve seen figures posted before for what you might call “COVID related non-COVID” deaths. This is in the news in the UK at the moment.
Latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show a “devastating surge” of around 20,800 additional deaths in England and Wales in the past four months compared with the average for the same period in the five years up to 2019, said Metro. Of these extra fatalities, referred to as “excess deaths”, 45% were not related to coronavirus.
Although a higher mortality rate is expected at this time of year, concerns are growing that NHS delays during the pandemic have left patients “with previously treatable conditions suffering illnesses that have now become fatal”, said The Telegraph.
There’s long been a suspicion that this would happen, but I don’t remember seeing real-world data before.
This probably isn’t the best cite/source for the story, but it’s the least bothersome in terms of cookie-storms that I have found (so I’m trying to do you a favor). Find other sources by googling non covid deaths uk.
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My family is all vaccinated now, and I’ve been boosted.
But on the societal level, I said there were about 18 months where “shock and awe” tactics would work. We’re past that now. Socially, it’s endemic. Trying to get people to man the ramparts or whatever against the declared 5th wave? It’s not going to happen. I’m vaccinated, family is vaccinated, but my social outrage is done. I take care of my own, that’s it. So I am not among the number with increased outrage at the unvaccinated.
Also said at the beginning that there is a limited amount of ammo in restrictions that people will take. Not unlimited. We can’t just do everything always the way some advocate. Every restrictive measure has a cost, and it’s important we only use them when they are effective.
WMUR said today we’re just shy the record number of hospitalizations too, FTR.
UK and Germany are worse per capita in case loads than the US. BUT, their hospitalizations and deaths remain lower. On the other hand, Austria’s cases and deaths are skyrocketing. Their vaccination rate isn’t much better than the US’s and the US has much more natural immunity. Hopefully, their lockdown for the unvaccinated idea works out because they are going to zip right past the US’s delta peak in deaths.
255,732,504 total cases
5,138,953 dead
231,147,585 recovered
In the US:
48,287,925 total cases
787,984 dead
38,260,784 recovered
Yesterday’s numbers for comparison:
The consequence they seem to care most about – losing their job – is just now starting to take effect in rural areas. Many rural areas only have one hospital, but lots of jobs with big chains so this will affect more people, and with few other job options, bring more pressure. I believe the deadline is Jan 4th, so over the next month we will be hearing a lot about this consequence.
And we’ll be hearing more shouting about ‘Freedom™’. The thing is, people who shout that are often heard to say, ‘Freedom isn’t free!’ when Liberals complain about something. Now they will have to face that their Freedom™ has a price. They’re free to choose whether to be vaccinated, or to keep their jobs. They’re free to choose whether to have their children vaccinated, or send them to a private school.
Ah, but don’t forget:
Their freedom shouldn’t cost them anything; duh.That’s what other, lesser people are for.
But it’s also being challenged in court, at least here in the US. The national chains of course want the cover of the regulations to enforce the mandate (as having vaccinated workers is better for their bottom line), but the local places in more rural areas often seem to have bought into the propaganda, and expect that the law will be overturned.
Assuming that the challenges don’t survive (even with our more conservative Supreme Court that has signaled that they don’t like Congress delegating powers to the executive), we can see if that solution works. But, honestly, I’d personally prefer not having the excess risk (no matter how small) to me by the 60% of the people in my area who are unvaccinated and no one wearing masks. If they were on lockdown, the risk to the rest of us would be lower.
It would make me very happy – payback for their self-serving idea back when Covid started that the vulnerable people be locked down so they could live their lives. Lockdowns for everyone infringed on their freedom. But I don’t think it could possibly work. In my area the vaccination rate is about 50%. Can’t imagine how 50% of the population could be locked down, especially when many of those who should be enforcing such a law are also anti-vax and would refuse to enforce it.
256,348,897 total cases
5,147,163 dead
231,550,769 recovered
In the US:
48,398,455 total cases
789,155 dead
38,330,073 recovered
Yesterday’s numbers for comparison:
I don’t think they are recommending it for everyone, but a booster is now available to everyone after 6 months (or 2 months after J&J). Or will be as soon as local providers update their screening questions.