# Coronavirus, Sick Leave, and the Gig Economy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169 "2020-03-10T00:18:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/1 "2020-03-10T00:18:50Z")
[This article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/09/sick-leave-coronavirus/), a WaPo article about US business’s hostility toward laws requiring sick leave, got me thinking about the topic. > [@WaPo](#): > > About 24 percent of U.S. workers, or more than 30 million people, lack access to paid sick leave, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Moreover, many of them are low-wage workers whose jobs involve working closely with the public — restaurant and retail workers, health-care aides — and this could conceivably make them virus “super spreaders.” Laws that require sick pay don’t always work: > [@](#): > > Even when states mandate sick pay, however, many workers can remain without it. Companies that hire people as “contractors” rather than “employees” say they are not obliged to offer sick pay. > > Jordan Anderson, 44, an Instacart shopper in Portland, Ore., where the state requires employers to offer sick pay, is one example. Although Anderson works 40 to 50 hours a week picking up groceries and other items for Instacart customers, she is not entitled to paid sick leave. > > Anderson said she cannot remember the last time she took a day off: not when she had the flu, or a pulled muscle in her back, or the several times a month she has debilitating migraines. More than once, she has vomited in the parking lot in the middle of a shift, then walked back into the supermarket to resume picking out groceries and delivering them to customers’ homes. Which makes me wonder about the gig economy specifically. These fake-contractor positions (and no, I’m not interested in arguing with you about that wording, dude) are so profitable for employers in part because they allow employers to avoid so many worker protection laws, including sick leave. As coronavirus spreads, what will gig workers do? Will Uber drivers and Lyft drivers stop driving if they become contagious? Can they afford to? [And what about restaurant workers?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/apps-have-turned-restaurant-work-into-a-gig-economy-hustle-heres-how-one-cook-chases-a-paycheck/2020/02/24/1f02ee5c-54a8-11ea-9e47-59804be1dcfb_story.html) I had never even heard of the restaurant gig economy, but here you go: > [@](#): > > [Zia Sheikh, the subject of the article] is one of hundreds of thousands of manual laborers pioneering a new economic era for his profession — as a gig worker signed into Pared, an app restaurants use for on-demand hires. Sheikh works in the New York City metropolitan area, where 64,130 restaurant cooks make up the nation’s largest such labor pool, as measured by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics in May 2018 — all earning an average of $15.34 an hour As bad as worker protections are for restaurant employees, at least they’re legally employees. Do we really think that sick Pared “contractors” are going to keep themselves off a vital gig because of that cough and fever? As a debate, I have a couple of points: 1. The gig economy, in its efforts to sidestep worker protections, is about to bite us in the ass; and 2. We need to figure out a way to extend worker protections, including sick leave policies, to gig workers, 3. like, yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/2 "2020-03-10T00:25:09Z")
[Uber and Lyft: Fine, We’ll Pay Workers Quarantined With Coronavirus](https://gizmodo.com/uber-and-lyft-fine-well-pay-workers-quarantined-with-1842212508) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/3 "2020-03-10T00:29:14Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > [Uber and Lyft: Fine, We’ll Pay Workers Quarantined With Coronavirus](https://gizmodo.com/uber-and-lyft-fine-well-pay-workers-quarantined-with-1842212508) That is potentially good news, undercut by the end of the article: > [@](#): > > Covering workers who expect they may have been infected for tests and check-ups could be a huge benefit to catching the virus earlier on—rather than when an individual is already showing symptoms, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says can appear as many as 14 days after exposure. But, again, this system would be reliant on some good faith sick pay for workers who have been diagnosed or quarantined. > > But gig work employers have not historically shown themselves to operate in good faith—quite the opposite, which is why we’re in this mess to begin with. It does appear that these companies realize the potential liability they may have on their hands if they don’t address the issue quickly. Let’s just hope for everyone’s sake that’s sooner rather than later. I really hope this gets fixed, but I don’t trust companies to have a reliable fix that’s self-imposed. For it to work, fake-contractor employees need to have a high level of trust that the companies won’t screw them over. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/4 "2020-03-10T19:45:26Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > [Uber and Lyft: Fine, We’ll Pay Workers Quarantined With Coronavirus](https://gizmodo.com/uber-and-lyft-fine-well-pay-workers-quarantined-with-1842212508) Much of the effort to redefine gig workers as employees is driven by the example of the Uber and Lyft driver - so this might be just PR to keep the backlash against this mode of work from increasing. Not to mention the backlash if a sick driver infects a lot of passengers. At least it is PR with benefit from those at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/5 "2020-03-10T20:50:09Z")
How long is most paid sick leave, tho? Considering that so many Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck, it seems to me that even people with paid sick leave would soon face the crunch of “go to work or be homeless”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/6 "2020-03-10T20:53:33Z")
It looks like [five to nine days](https://smallbusiness.chron.com/industry-standard-sick-days-73953.html) is average, although there are plenty of folks who get fewer, and some who get more. For a disease with a 2-week period of contagion, that’s clearly inadequate. I keep saying, the US has some unique features of its health care system that are damn near perfect for the coronavirus to spread in. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/7 "2020-03-10T22:56:25Z")
Please explain why you think that people should be paid for NOT working??? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/8 "2020-03-10T22:58:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please explain why you think that people should be paid for NOT working??? It’s hard to say no to please, Mo Willems teaches us, but sometimes it’s important. No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/9 "2020-03-10T23:09:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please explain why you think that people should be paid for NOT working??? People who don’t get paid when they are sick often can’t afford to “self-quarantine”; they’ll show up for work when they are contagious because they need the paycheck. That means they can spread their germs to the people they come in contact with: co-workers, customers, other passengers on the bus or the subway, etc. If they are infected with COVID19, then based on current information, two to four percent of the people to whom they spread their germs will die. Why do you think that is less costly (for their customers, for their employers, for public health officials, or for the economy as a whole) than paying them to keep their germs in their own living spaces? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/10 "2020-03-10T23:14:36Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please explain why you think that people should be paid for NOT working??? Next time your waiter coughs on your food, you should go find the manager and thank him for keeping prices down by making the server come in sick. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/11 "2020-03-10T23:16:52Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > People who don’t get paid when they are sick often can’t afford to “self-quarantine”; they’ll show up for work when they are contagious because they need the paycheck. That means they can spread their germs to the people they come in contact with: co-workers, customers, other passengers on the bus or the subway, etc. If they are infected with COVID19, then based on current information, two to four percent of the people to whom they spread their germs will die. Why do you think that is less costly (for their customers, for their employers, for public health officials, or for the economy as a whole) than paying them to keep their germs in their own living spaces? When I worked for the Bell System our center had a lunch and ceremony for those who weren’t out sick once the entire year. I qualified a couple of times. You got a small gift certificate for the internal Telephone Pioneer store. They finally figured out that encouraging people to come in sick to get recognition was not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/12 "2020-03-10T23:21:39Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please explain why you think that people should be paid for NOT working??? [ul] [li] So they don’t infect those nearby, bosses included.[/li][li] So they regain health enough to resume work.[/li][li] Because workers are assets, not liabilities.[/li][li] Because we’d rather avoid underclass revolts.[/li][li] 1%ers are paid not to work; why not everyone?[/li][/ul] Unemployment is a record lows. [Real wages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_wages) are now at 1973 levels, with ~600% inflation since then. That means vast numbers of jobs don’t provide a [living wage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage). These pittance workers mostly don’t receive paid medical leave so they’re working sick. Productivity? Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/13 "2020-03-10T23:24:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please explain why you think that people should be paid for NOT working??? On a base level I agree with you, but the horse is out of the submarine and has been beaten to death through the screen door. Businesses have been regulated to death by a myriad of other things; requiring sick pay would be about #78 on my bitch list. However, I do agree with the sentiment. If a worker comes to work sick because he or she cannot afford to miss a day, then that is not the fault of the business but the worker. The business owes the worker no more than a market rate for work actually performed. That being said, so many businesses complain when a worker calls in sick, sometimes accusing the worker of covering up a hangover. When that happens, the business is at fault. Businesses need to understand that they are not employing robots, but humans who will get sick from time to time. But the flip side of that is that if workers demand too much, they may find their jobs replaced by robots. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/14 "2020-03-11T00:28:26Z")
To be clear, if someone thinks debating whether sick leave is a good idea make any kind of goddamned sense whatsoever, that’d be a great topic for a different thread. The questions worth exploring here, IMO, are whether and how we can extend sick leave protections to gig workers, so that we don’t have Coronavirus chefs and chauffeurs. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/15 "2020-03-11T01:08:23Z")
In Canada, all provinces have sick leave… but only one has _paid_ sick leave, and it’s only one day. Sick leave is otherwise unpaid, but you are “guaranteed” not to lose your job over it. I used to have a crappy job where I saw someone get fired for being sick all the time (legitimately so) but… it took a long time and the firing was officially for another reason. Some unionized jobs have paid sick leave. Teachers get a lot of days (and use almost all of them), and used to have a sick leave bank, though I believe that’s ended in many provinces. Where I work the sick days roll over into a “bank” but I will not be paid out of unused sick days when I retire (or get fired)… it’s unionized, so I’m lucky. This does **not** apply to the gig economy here. I have never participated in it, so I would have to ask… if an Uber driver takes a week off sick, can they remain an Uber driver? Otherwise I’m not seeing how it’s very different than for a (typical) Canadian worker. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/16 "2020-03-11T02:21:11Z")
US residents opposed to universal health coverage and sick leave benefits do NOT have US interests of the mind but are effectively enemy assets seeking a sicker, weaker, poorer nation. Look in the mirror. You know who you are. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/17 "2020-03-11T03:12:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > To be clear, if someone thinks debating whether sick leave is a good idea make any kind of goddamned sense whatsoever, that’d be a great topic for a different thread. The questions worth exploring here, IMO, are whether and how we can extend sick leave protections to gig workers, so that we don’t have Coronavirus chefs and chauffeurs. So for the purposes of this thread, nobody can argue that gig workers should not get paid sick leave because nobody else does either is not an acceptable answer to you? I’m a small business owner. Who pays me when I’m sick? I don’t get sick pay, vacation pay, holiday pay, etc. I budget out of my projected take so that I can take off those days. No reason why workers shouldn’t either, especially when you know, they were told that there was no sick pay when they took the job. Should I pay the neighbor kid who mows my lawn money when he’s sick or it’s Christmas? > [@RioRico](#): > > US residents opposed to universal health coverage and sick leave benefits do NOT have US interests of the mind but are effectively enemy assets seeking a sicker, weaker, poorer nation. Look in the mirror. You know who you are. Enemy assets? Jesus, you guys are extreme and just stare at the wall and wonder why oh why you don’t win elections. Your post is why. Will you pay for my sick time and holiday time? Does that make you an enemy asset if you don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/18 "2020-03-11T03:53:18Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m a small business owner. Who pays me when I’m sick? I don’t get sick pay, vacation pay, holiday pay, etc. I budget out of my projected take so that I can take off those days. No reason why workers shouldn’t either, especially when you know, they were told that there was no sick pay when they took the job. …I’m a small business owner. I see it as my responsibility to both pay my staff a living wage \*\*and \*\*to pay them sick pay if they are sick and need to take time off work. Are you saying as a small business owner you \*\*don’t \*\*do either of these things? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/19 "2020-03-11T04:00:15Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m a small business owner. I see it as my responsibility to both pay my staff a living wage \*\*and \*\*to pay them sick pay if they are sick and need to take time off work. Are you saying as a small business owner you \*\*don’t \*\*do either of these things? I do both of these things. However, that is not my responsibility by any definition of the term. I owe them a market wage for services rendered. I am not their father or their caretaker. Who pays when you are sick? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169/20 "2020-03-11T04:21:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I do both of these things. However, that is not my responsibility by any definition of the term. I owe them a market wage for services rendered. I am not their father or their caretaker. …I didn’t ask if you paid a market wage. I asked if you paid a **living wage**. Do you understand the difference? > [@](#): > > Who pays when you are sick? You’ve already answered that question. That doesn’t change any of my obligations to the people that work for me. They don’t share the same ability to ramp up sales if need be to cover short-falls in projected revenue or to cut back if required if the business isn’t going to make budget. I just finished sharing this story in another thread. In 2016 I got sick and I had to completely change my business model in order to keep the business going. My cashflow remained the same but my margins dropped in half. But the business kept going and this year is on track to be the best that I’ve ever had. So this isn’t a theoretical question for me. I continued to pay living (not market) rates to the people that worked for me even though my margins had tightened. That’s just the right thing to do. And in face of the coronavirus what we should be doing as business owners should be pretty clear as well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coronavirus-sick-leave-and-the-gig-economy/849169.md?page=2)