# Corporate Speak That Pisses You Off **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 24, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852 "2020-12-24T23:02:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/62 "2020-12-25T23:13:00Z")
I don’t even work in a hospital anymore. They call us a market. Which is really odd for a Catholic nonprofit. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/63 "2020-12-25T23:13:36Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Regardless of dictionary definitions, that is the common understanding of the difference in those terms. It’s pure invention on your part that the term “guest” implies no commercial relationship, no payment. There is certainly no such “common understanding”, as google ngram makes unambiguously clear from actual usage: [Google ngram comparison of “hotel guest” vs “hotel customer”](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=hotel+guest+%2C+hotel+customer&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Chotel%20guest%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Chotel%20customer%3B%2Cc0) And how about these expressions? _guest performer_ _guest host_ _guest worker_ These guests are _receiving_ payment. How does that fit into the restricted definition that you have pulled out of your… brain? Is there any amount of evidence that anyone could possibly present to you about the way the rest of the world uses the word that could convince you that you are wrong? If not, perhaps you should consider whether your mental model for the way language works is flawed. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/64 "2020-12-25T23:50:35Z")
Would you think that my mother in law is paying to stay here? If not, what word could I use to distinguish her from a customer? If not “guest” then what other word? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/65 "2020-12-26T00:00:56Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Another addition. When Wendys asks me if this is to go or for the “dining room.” Hehe. It is fucking Wendys… Nobody “dines” there. There are no piano players or someone coming to my table playing a violin. I “eat” at Wendys. Nobody “dines” there. > **[Dining room](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dining_room)** > > A dining room is a room for consuming food. In modern times it is usually adjacent to the kitchen for convenience in serving, although in medieval times it was often on an entirely different floor level. Historically the dining room is furnished with a rather large dining table and several dining chairs; the most common shape is generally rectangular with two armed end chairs and an even number of un-armed side chairs along the long sides. > In the Middle Ages, upper-class Britons and other Europ... ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/66 "2020-12-26T00:04:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Would you think that my mother in law is paying to stay here? If not, what word could I use to distinguish her from a customer? If not “guest” then what other word? Has anyone ever assumed that your mother-in-law was paying you? Has she ever _tried_ to pay you? Have you ever tried to pay _her_? Has a hotel guest ever skipped without paying and claimed in mitigation that they assumed that they were not required to pay, that it was Conrad Hilton’s treat? The range of meaning of words is not held hostage to some implausible misunderstanding that you imagine might arise. There isn’t always a single word that can express exactly the narrowest range of meaning that you want to convey, and context is always part of communication. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/67 "2020-12-26T00:17:54Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > “Reach out” always strikes me as weirdly 60s-ish. It reminds me of the song “Reach Out of the Darkness,” and the Burt Bacharach album _Reach Out_ . If someone says they’re “reaching out” to me, I’m tempted to respond with “Groovy,” or “Far out!” “Reach Out” reminds me of the Bell Systems / AT&T commercial. Of course, when I sing it I change the lyrics to, “Reeeach out, reach out and punch someone.” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yt6DvapiK-w/hqdefault.jpg "1970's Bell Reach Out And Touch Someone Commercial") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt6DvapiK-w) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/68 "2020-12-26T00:19:07Z")
I’ve got no dog in the fight over ‘guest’ but OTOH the phrase “hospitality industry” to describe the hotel biz makes me want to upchuck. ‘Hospitality’ has a connotation of doing something that’s not required of you, bringing people into your home out of friendship or generosity. ‘Hospitality’ as a commercial transaction is the Camazotz version of hospitality. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/69 "2020-12-26T00:23:28Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’ve got no dog in the fight over ‘guest’ but OTOH the phrase “hospitality industry” to describe the hotel biz makes me want to upchuck. [Here’s the ngram](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=hospitality+industry+%2C+hotel+business&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Chospitality%20industry%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Chotel%20business%3B%2Cc0). It looks like the expression first emerged in the Mad Men era, and took off in the 80’s and 90’s, passing “hotel business” in written prevalence in 1983. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/70 "2020-12-26T00:24:01Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Has anyone ever assumed that your mother-in-law was paying you? Has she ever _tried_ to pay you? Have you ever tried to pay _her_ ? Has a hotel guest ever skipped without paying and claimed in mitigation that they assumed that they were not required to pay, that it was Conrad Hilton’s treat? > > The range of meaning of words is not held hostage to some implausible misunderstanding that you imagine might arise. There isn’t always a single word that can express exactly the narrowest range of meaning that you want to convey, and context is always part of communication. That’s why we have these different words. When I say that my mother in law is a guest, you know without question that she has not been asked or required to pay. Why? Because that is what that word means. If I use that word, you wouldn’t have a question in your mind whether I charged her, because that is what the term “guest” means. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/71 "2020-12-26T00:41:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > that is what the term “guest” means. If we disagree on what a word means, how should we resolve our difference of opinion? What do you think determines what words mean? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/72 "2020-12-26T00:56:04Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > “Reach out” always strikes me as weirdly 60s-ish. It reminds me of the song “Reach Out of the Darkness,” Funny that you should mention that particular song. I was in the local Trader Joe’s on Saturday, and it was one of the songs they played over their sound system. I don’t think I’d heard that song since maybe the first year or three after it was originally on the charts, IOW, roughly half a century. The songs the phrase makes me think of include the Four Tops’ “[Reach Out (I’ll Be There)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EaflX0MWRo)” or the part of “[Brother Love’s Traveling Salvation Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5va1iaLj2M)” where Neil Diamond says: > Now you got yourself two good hands > And when your brother is troubled > You gotta reach out your one hand for him > 'Cause that’s what it’s there for > And when your heart is troubled > You gotta reach out your other hand > Reach it out to the man up there > 'Cause that’s what he’s there for ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/73 "2020-12-26T01:03:13Z")
Sounds about right. Using @LSLGuy’s three categories, it strikes me as a mix of euphemistic BS and marketing-speak. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/74 "2020-12-26T01:05:00Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If we disagree on what a word means, how should we resolve our difference of opinion? What do you think determines what words mean? Me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/75 "2020-12-26T01:11:47Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > > I’ve got no dog in the fight over ‘guest’ but OTOH the phrase “hospitality industry” to describe the hotel biz makes me want to upchuck. > > [Here’s the ngram](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=hospitality+industry+%2C+hotel+business&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Chospitality%20industry%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Chotel%20business%3B%2Cc0). > > It looks like the expression first emerged in the Mad Men era, and took off in the 80’s and 90’s, passing “hotel business” in written prevalence in 1983. The business has diversified quite a lot. In the '70s I think we were seeing some of those hostels that were more bare-bones service than actual hotels. And then we started to see BnBs, which really do not fit into the “hotel” category. “Hospitality” might even extend as far as KoA-type operations. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/76 "2020-12-26T01:19:44Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > …and it would be harder to think of a better word to dehumanize personnel. Yes there is. Human Capital Management. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/77 "2020-12-26T01:31:06Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Human Capital Management. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/78 "2020-12-26T01:35:17Z")
“Guest” in the sense of someone entertained for pay, as at an inn, has been used in English for 700 years. Your battle is a little late now. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/79 "2020-12-26T02:56:17Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If we disagree on what a word means, how should we resolve our difference of opinion? What do you think determines what words mean? Without buy-in from all key stakeholders around the meaning of guest, these headwinds are going to occupy too much bandwidth. We’re going to need to have an open dialogue to drill down where the rubber really meets the road. Remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/80 "2020-12-26T03:24:38Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > > [@Treppenwitz](#): > > > > …and it would be harder to think of a better word to dehumanize personnel. > > Yes there is. > > Human Capital Management. Also, referring to employees as “assets”. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852/81 "2020-12-26T03:41:28Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Yes there is. > > Human Capital Management. What’s a better word or term to use? I’m in HR and never viewed HCM to be particularly dehumanizing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corporate-speak-that-pisses-you-off/928852.md?page=5)