# "Correct" pronounciations that people have given up on **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 11, 2015, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246 "2015-10-11T07:34:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/201 "2015-10-22T02:26:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > And you are incorrect. That ship has sailed long ago. We are not speaking French. Most dictionaries list “fortay” as the preferred pronunciation. And it makes sense. Of course, as it’s English we’re speaking, then wouldn’t it make more sense to have the “e” silent? Hypercorrection in the attempt to sound more French is about the worst kind there is. As far as possible I avoid using certain words, rather than dumb down my pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/202 "2015-10-22T02:34:47Z")
Krogers everybody puts the S on it. one of these days Kroger will give up and add one too. Goes back to the early days when many groceries had an S. Albertsons, Wegmans etc A lot of small grocers used S to. Bill’s Grocery Tom’s Grocery ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/203 "2015-10-22T03:58:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’ve told this one before. As a youth I worked at Kmart. This guy comes in and asks where he can find the ‘all’. I asked, ‘All? You mean laundry detergent? It’s on aisle…’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘_All_. For the _car!_’ I figured out he was talking about _oil_ and directed him to Automotive. When I worked at a grocery store as my first job, a customer asked for “Ahse” and I had no idea what he was talking about. He eventually walked out with a bag of ice. Ah was remahnded of this recently while watching a video clip of a panel where one guy’s accent had the same pronunciation of that vowel even though everyone else on the panel was using the standard pronunciation, and that vowel was part of the name of the thing they were all talking about. Ah wonder if he even thought he was pronouncing it differently. It’s silly how “i” has gone from being pronounced “ee” originally to the “ah-ee” diphthong and then shortened to “ah” bah some folks. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/204 "2015-10-22T05:14:53Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Honestly my source was my memory. I studied French for several years. I did an online search and I see the majority of what is written on line says I am wrong so I guess I am (although it does seem many people have the same memory as me and some chalk it up to many words losing their accents due to the rise of word processing but who knows…). I stand corrected. I’m surprised to learn, just now, that _forte_ doesn’t seem to exist at all, in modern French. From [etymonline.com](http://etymonline.com): > [@](#): > > forte (n.) > 1640s, fort, from French fort “strong point (of a sword blade),” from Middle French fort “fort, fortress” (see fort). Meaning “strong point of a person, that in which one excels,” is from 1680s. Final -e- added 18c. in imitation of Italian forte “strong.” ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/205 "2015-10-22T05:18:46Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > John Dillinger’s preferred pronunciation of his name rhymed with “stinger”. And look where that got him. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/206 "2015-10-22T05:24:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > When did people start using “defense” as a verb? What’s wrong with “defend”? > > I really, really hate this one. I don’t know when, but it probably happened by analogy with _indefensible_. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/207 "2015-10-22T05:37:15Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > If you lived in St. Augustine, why would you necessarily know the name of a street in Atlanta? Or did you mean that you didn’t know who Ponce de Leon was? > _Mayonnaise_ is another one where, at least in the U.S., an “incorrect” pronunciation - “man-ayze” - is driving out the proper “may-on-ayze”. Likewise “chok-lit” is more common than “chok-o-lat”. I wouldn’t be surprised if one can say the same about “cran” and “crayun”. However resigned I must be to the evolution of language, it’s disheartening that, in my dialect, the formerly incorrect pronunciations are how kindergartners pronounce those words. Can it be that, before long, we’ll hear adults saying “amblee-ance” and “reglee-ar”? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/208 "2015-10-22T06:06:55Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I’ve noticed BBC shows where they call the city in Missouri “Saint Loowie,” as they’d also call it’s French namesake. To Americans, the above pronunciation often seems humorous, because we only pronounce “Louie”–the nickname–that way. “Louie” seems an apt nickname for a low-level mob enforcer in a 1950s crime drama. In the 1910s there really was a man known as Cyclone Louie, who was a Coney Island strong man who also became mixed up in the local gang wars of the day. Or another occupation for people named Louie would be: a hustling theatrical agent or producer. Louie would have been a perfect first name for Byalastock in _The Producers_, if not for the fact that Max was just as apt a name as Louie would have been. People named Louie are automatically what are known as ‘characters’. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/209 "2015-10-22T06:18:15Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I left out a question–how does cache pertain to computers? I don’t think this was answered. IIRC a cache is usually a copy of recently accessed data which is held in RAM or some other location where the CPU can more easily access it than if it had to go back to where it originally fetched the data from. The premise is that recently retrieved data is likely to be needed again. The particulars depend on the context. In an internet browser, the cache is usually somewhere on your disk drive or SSD, as opposed to out in the wilds of the Internet. In the case of applications using local data on your computer or smartphone, the cache might occupy a section of RAM, as opposed to being somewhere on your external SD card or HDD/SSD, and so on. The “hiding” part doesn’t really apply here. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/210 "2015-10-22T11:22:29Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > French-origin loanwords are always traps for the unwary, but _cache_ is particularly prone to this. Even those who have studied French might mistakenly think of the word as _caché_, past tense of the verb _cacher_, and therefore possibly the thing which is hidden. Hence the mispronunciation “cashay”. All true. The existence of the unrelated French loan word “cachet” which is commonly (and properly even!) pronounced “cashay” doesn’t help here. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/211 "2015-10-22T11:29:06Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > > > I’ve noticed BBC shows where they call the city in Missouri “Saint Loowie,” as they’d also call it’s French namesake. > > To Americans, the above pronunciation often seems humorous, because we only pronounce “Louie”–the nickname–that way. … Louisville, KY, home of the Kentucky Derby. What is interesting is that about 50 miles SE of Louisville is the town of Versailles, pronounced “ver-SAILS” by the locals. Speaking of Louisville, there is a town in central Mississippi called Louisville. It is pronounced “Lewisville”, or more phonetically, “Lew-US-vull”. It’s just a bit north of Philadelphia, MS if you want to find it on a map. Taking a look at the names of some of the other towns in the area (Shuqualak, Noxapater, Bogue Chitto) makes it understandable why they decided to recycle existing city names. I assume that Shuqualak, Noxapater, and Bogue Chitto are taken from Native American names for the area. I wonder how much the current pronunciation resembles the “Correct” Native American (Choctaw, I assume) pronunciation? ---
**Author:** ![Themenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/212 "2015-10-22T11:44:03Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’m surprised to learn, just now, that _forte_ doesn’t seem to exist at all, in modern French. From [etymonline.com](http://etymonline.com): Well it does _exist_, but it’s a feminine adjective, and not a noun. The root word “fort” (adj. strong) is in fact pronounced with a silent “t”, and is presumably the historical version of today’s “forte”. So if ever you feel like getting all persnickety, the “correct” pronunciation would be “fore” - with a slightly guttural “r” for the true perfectionist… ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/213 "2015-10-22T12:05:12Z")
How about “Diety” when it should be “Deity”? The people who are spelling it wrong must be pronouncing it wrong (in their head and/or aloud). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/214 "2015-10-22T23:50:20Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I assume that Shuqualak, Noxapater, and Bogue Chitto are taken from Native American names for the area. I wonder how much the current pronunciation resembles the “Correct” Native American (Choctaw, I assume) pronunciation? That part of Mississippi was the Choctaw _Urheimat_: Nanih Waiya. [Choctaw language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_language) Article may or may not have sufficient data to reconstruct original Chahta’ spelling and pronunciation of those names. We had a Muskogean expert here a while back, **Cate Ayo** , who would be the best one to investigate that. Are you reading this, Red Hawk? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/215 "2015-10-23T02:16:30Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > The word defense is supposed to be pronounced de-FENCE, but because of the wonder of sports and our love of chanting, we’ve basically turned that into DE-fence Which brings to mind: The Celtics. > [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > Mangetout. Forget the pronounciation, it can’t even be decided whether it’s one word or two. I think you mean two words or three. And then there’s “sherbert.” Is that abomination becoming standard? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/216 "2015-10-23T23:48:49Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > No, that one we’re pretty determined to enjoy for forever if we can. > > Sometimes you just have to. Yep…something about it being a sin not to. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/217 "2015-10-25T01:53:34Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Louisville, KY, home of the Kentucky Derby. > What is interesting is that about 50 miles SE of Louisville is the town of Versailles, pronounced “ver-SAILS” by the locals. > > Speaking of Louisville, there is a town in central Mississippi called Louisville. It is pronounced “Lewisville”, or more phonetically, “Lew-US-vull”. It’s just a bit north of Philadelphia, MS if you want to find it on a map. Taking a look at the names of some of the other towns in the area (Shuqualak, Noxapater, Bogue Chitto) makes it understandable why they decided to recycle existing city names. > > I assume that Shuqualak, Noxapater, and Bogue Chitto are taken from Native American names for the area. I wonder how much the current pronunciation resembles the “Correct” Native American (Choctaw, I assume) pronunciation? My Dad grew up near Noxapater, I am thrilled beyond belief to find some one who has heard of it! My general area has a Versaillles Rd and it is officially pronounced ver-SAILS here, too > [@Johanna](#): > > That part of Mississippi was the Choctaw _Urheimat_: Nanih Waiya. > [Choctaw language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_language) > Article may or may not have sufficient data to reconstruct original Chahta’ spelling and pronunciation of those names. We had a Muskogean expert here a while back, **Cate Ayo** , who would be the best one to investigate that. Are you reading this, Red Hawk? Yep, the Nanih Waiya Indian mound is in the area. One of my uncles by marriage was a Native American from this area, I would presume Choctaw but I never asked. The correct pronunciation I have (almost) given up on is forte (fort.) I’ve been corrected on it more than a few times. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/218 "2015-10-25T12:49:44Z")
I am another who says fortay, even though I know it is wrong. And I often pronounce Porsche as Porsh just because most others do. I also feel Provolone should be pronounced Provolonay, but nobody else does, so I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/219 "2015-10-25T14:29:42Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > How about “Diety” when it should be “Deity”? The people who are spelling it wrong must be pronouncing it wrong (in their head and/or aloud). In a related vein, I’ve noticed the hyper-Latinism “dio-seeze” edging out “dioceses”–yes, even in the mouths of vastly experienced and highly educated writers. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246/220 "2015-10-25T14:39:28Z")
> [@Cub\_Mistress](#): > > … The correct pronunciation I have (almost) given up on is forte (fort.) I’ve been corrected on it more than a few times. This one has gone around the bush several times in this thread already. So which pronunciation do you think is correct & which one are others correcting you to? One is “Fort” and the other is “Fortay”. But which is which? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronounciations-that-people-have-given-up-on/734246.md?page=12)