# Correct Pronunciation of "Kamikaze"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 30, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294 "2012-10-30T03:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/41 "2012-10-31T21:49:10Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I think that’s dialectal. At least the people I know from Hiroshima and Osaka tend to use something closer to ʃ (though some contexts do have a breathier one at least, I agree). I can’t offer a link to my cite, but the IPA Journals’ Illustrations of the IPA for a Tokyo-area Japanese male gives the sound as “ʃ” too. In fact, when I was in Japan, one of my bosses, who was from Hiroshima himself, pronounced it in a way I could equally well have transliterated as hirohima and shiroshima. (And maybe also with thar soft palate noise represented by ch in German–“chirochima”.) I actually thought he had a speech impediment. I was ignorant! I later heard sinilar pronounciations of hi and shi on TV so I now think its dialectical. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/42 "2012-10-31T21:50:41Z")
re: “ka-mee” vs “commie” > [@Lasciel](#): > > … > > Those two sets of words should have very different vowel sounds in them. If they don’t, then your accent is causing you troubles, and you need to listen to someone with a different accent pronounce them so you can hear the difference, then insert the words in your accent that represent the difference. If you don’t have the words in your accent to represent a difference there, then there’s not much anyone else can do for you. I see. I have a problem with my accent. Not buying it. Maybe your explanation isn’t quite as lucid as you think, but I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t pronounce “commie” as “ka-mee.” Even folks with an “accent.” Now, maybe you’re addressing the second syllable. If that’s the case, then maybe try to represent the short i sounds as ih. Ka - mih ka - zeh. That’s at least different than ka-mee ka-zee, which one hears a lot and is clearly not authentic. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/43 "2012-10-31T22:01:33Z")
> [@CC](#): > > re: “ka-mee” vs “commie” > > I see. I have a problem with my accent. Not buying it. Maybe your explanation isn’t quite as lucid as you think, but I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t pronounce “commie” as “ka-mee.” Even folks with an “accent.” Now, maybe you’re addressing the second syllable. If that’s the case, then maybe try to represent the short i sounds as ih. Ka - mih ka - zeh. That’s at least different than ka-mee ka-zee, which one hears a lot and is clearly not authentic. Do you pronounce “cat” differently from “cot”? If not, then it is certainly your accent that is the problem here. I can assure you that, for me too, the **a** in “kamikaze” is quite different from the **o** in “commie”. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/44 "2012-11-01T00:10:02Z")
Wouldn’t the stereotypical New York accent (or is it Boston?) pronounce them differently? I don’t know IPA but… commie would be pronounced, to my ear, almost like “kwahmmie” and kami would not. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/45 "2012-11-01T00:24:38Z")
Quick fun quiz. Indicate which words from this list have the same first vowel sound as the first vowel sound in kamikaze. Camshaft Cat Commie Dog Cane Camera Car Kevlar For me, the answers are: commie, dog and car. (I am from DFW but am often told I “speak without an accent”. I think the DFW area has a lot of midwest accent speakers.) ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/46 "2012-11-01T01:17:17Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’ve heard that the “u” sound is often dropped. A company name like Matsushita is pronounced without the “su” syllable, running the two “s” sounds together. > > Is this true generally? If not, it is even true for this specific case, and if so, why? No, with Matsushita, the ‘i’ is elided, prouncing it as “Matsushta”. There are other elisions or whatever you call them, such as “Matsuda” being pronounced “Mazda”. Here we see the ‘u’ elided, but also the “ts” morphed into a ‘z’, which doesn’t happen for lots of other ‘ts’ cases. In any case, “shinpai suru na”. I probably spelled that wrong. > [@njtt](#): > > Do you pronounce “cat” differently from “cot”? > > If not, then it is certainly your accent that is the problem here. I can assure you that, for me too, the **a** in “kamikaze” is quite different from the **o** in “commie”. Bad example, but correct in principle. The example is bad because the a in “cat” doesn’t sound like the a in “kah”, where the a sounds like the “o” in “cot”, for most American accents. However, some Brit accents would pronounce “commie” and “kah-mee” differently. Most Americans wouldn’t. Still, “shinpai suru na.” ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/47 "2012-11-01T01:18:37Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Quick fun quiz. Indicate which words from this list have the same first vowel sound as the first vowel sound in kamikaze. > > Camshaft > Cat > Commie > Dog > Cane > Camera > Car > Kevlar > > For me, the answers are: commie, dog and car. (I am from DFW but am often told I “speak without an accent”. I think the DFW area has a lot of midwest accent speakers.) No way does “dog” qualify, to anyone with a broadcast US or midwest accent. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/48 "2012-11-01T02:35:51Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > No way does “dog” qualify, to anyone with a broadcast US or midwest accent. It is without a doubt the same vowel sound in my accent. Not sure what the name of my accent is. Like I said, I’m from DFW, and am often told I speak “without an accent” (both by DFW people and by people in California and by people here in Indianapolis). ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/49 "2012-11-01T02:45:41Z")
The sound, in my accent, is [⟨ɑ⟩](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_back_unrounded_vowel) for all three words. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/50 "2012-11-01T03:30:47Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Quick fun quiz. Indicate which words from this list have the same first vowel sound as the first vowel sound in kamikaze. > > Camshaft > Cat > Commie > Dog > Cane > Camera > Car > Kevlar > > For me, the answers are: commie, dog and car. (I am from DFW but am often told I “speak without an accent”. I think the DFW area has a lot of midwest accent speakers.) Only car. And I say that more like cah. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/51 "2012-11-01T03:38:19Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I think you can make a strong case that Kamikaze has become a loan word in english with it’s own distinct pronunciation. “kammee-ka-zee” is the correct pronunciation in english, it doesn’t really matter that native Japanese is different unless you are actually trying to speak Japanese to a native speaker. Agreed, except the vowel in the second syllable, in American English, is a short “i”, like _hit_. Definitely a long “e” for the last syllable. See, e.g., [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kamikaze) and [MacMillan](http://www.macmillandictionary.com/pronunciation/american/kamikaze). As for the first syllable, to my ear, more the broad “a” of _father_ than the short “o” of _cot_, but that’s a narrow distinction and perhaps not universal. To emphasize, this is the generally-accepted American English pronunciation. I defer to others as to the correct Japanese pronunciation. And have no basis for an opinion about the British English one. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/52 "2012-11-01T03:39:01Z")
> [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](#): > > Aside: if the Japanese weren’t using the term “Kamikaze” to describe the suicide bombers, how did it enter the American vocabulary? The term kamikaze was used by the Japanese, but only as the name of the naval suicide attack unit (the “Kamikaze Special Attack Group”), not as a general term. So, for example, it did not apply to Japanese army air force suicide attack groups. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/53 "2012-11-01T04:02:54Z")
Re: the pronunciation of Matsushita. The high vowel devoicing rule says that the high vowels i and u are devoiced: 1. between two voiceless consonants (p, t, k, s, sh, ch, h, f, ts) 2. between a voiceless consonant and a pause (good thing I kept my Japanese linguistics notes!) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/54 "2012-11-01T05:48:35Z")
Oh good! Now untangle the mysteries of rendaku! Do not try to untangle the mysteries of rendaku. You will go mad ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/55 "2012-11-01T14:26:02Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I think that’s dialectal. At least the people I know from Hiroshima and Osaka tend to use something closer to ʃ (though some contexts do have a breathier one at least, I agree). I can’t offer a link to my cite, but the IPA Journals’ Illustrations of the IPA for a Tokyo-area Japanese male gives the sound as “ʃ” too. It is dialectal. Lots of people with an authentic Osaka accent can’t pronounce “shi” and pronounce it the same as “hi”. For example 7 is “hichi”. I recently saw a pawn shop sign in Daikokucho with an incorrect spelling based on that accent feature… they had actually written ひ　instead of し. As for names like “Matsushita”, I don’t think you’ll hear a “tsu” in there. More like “matchta-san”. Having said that, my experience in the workplace is that names are normally spoken so fast that the whole middle part of the name is elided. Kawahara-san sounds like “karasa”. Shirotsu-san sounds like “shossa”. To me, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294/56 "2012-11-02T01:34:04Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > It is dialectal. Lots of people with an authentic Osaka accent can’t pronounce “shi” and pronounce it the same as “hi”. For example 7 is “hichi”. > > I recently saw a pawn shop sign in Daikokucho with an incorrect spelling based on that accent feature… they had actually written ひ　instead of し. > > As for names like “Matsushita”, I don’t think you’ll hear a “tsu” in there. More like “matchta-san”. Having said that, my experience in the workplace is that names are normally spoken so fast that the whole middle part of the name is elided. Kawahara-san sounds like “karasa”. Shirotsu-san sounds like “shossa”. To me, anyway. This is dialectal. Tokyo is the opposite, with Edo-kko people saying “shi” for “hi.” I worked with a lot of people from Matsushita and they would all say “Matsushta” with a “u” not no “i.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correct-pronunciation-of-kamikaze/639294.md?page=2)