# Correlation between voice & musical talent **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 17, 2024, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351 "2024-11-17T06:38:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/1 "2024-11-17T06:38:08Z")
This is not good enough a question for GQ, so… I am currently listening to my house-mate singing along to music. He’s terrible. I would assume he was doing drunk kareoke if it was not 08:30 am, and I know he slept. I mean, he might have started drinking really, really early… But he is a really talented musician. He has 8 guitars and an antique electronic keyboard. He’s enthusiastic and a good musician. Just a piss-poor singer. Flat, off tune, you name it. I, on the other hand, spent my entire school career in the choir. I can sing, and well. But I could not master an instrument. First violin, which is tricky, then trumpet, which is not. Just plain bad at both. So why would someone like me, who has a great voice and feeling for music fail at instruments, and a person like him who has talent with instruments have such a bad voice? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/2 "2024-11-17T08:00:35Z")
Is your housemate only off key while singing but has the timing right? I think the coordination of your hands, fingers, occasionally feet, and blowing air into wind instruments is very different from producing specific sounds with just your lungs, throat, and mouth. Many people can do both perfectly well, but not all musicians. OTOH it does seem surprising when someone who can play an instrument well can’t get the timing right while singing off key. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/3 "2024-11-17T08:14:01Z")
Timing is all good (in both our cases) but off key is the issue. At choir, we did not have a conductor in the “live” performances, but very much so in rehearsal. We were at a really trad Anglican school, not dissimilar to my trad Catholic backgound, the choir stood in benches just before the naves of the cathedral. (Yes, cathedral. The school was old school, and it needed to fit 600 boys, and 200 girls… when girls were allowed to come over from our sister school… but I am digressing) Practice got us on time. I mean, for example, a work by John Sebastian Bach, accompanied by pipe-organ (did I mention the “cathedral” part) would be thoroughly practiced for weeks in advance. “Jesu, joy of man’s desiring” less so, as we all knew it. I can still sing all four parts, (in my mind!) soprano, alto, tenor, bass, though I am now a contra-bass and can’t reach the “high” notes. The choir master was a genius, he could identify which member was off key. He was also a really nice guy, so no problem, just encouragement. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/S6OgZCCoXWc/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGEggUyhlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLBTNTZfYSboygpcFaFCeN50s_EvSA "Best Version of Jesu, Joy Of Man's Desiring by Bach (With Lyrics)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6OgZCCoXWc) ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/4 "2024-11-17T08:37:17Z")
To late to edit, and a sidenote anyway. I am a lifelong atheist, since very shaky belief was somewhat forced on me by religious bullshit. But, man. Those religious composers were not looking for fame and glory. They were looking to god himself. They were pulling out all the stops\* to worship this guy. My favourite classical music tends heavily to the god-bothering side (well, and the other, Shostakovich is also a favourite, and he was atheist) because these men and women deeply believe their purpose is to glorify god and they fucking do it to the best of their ability. Like, for me, if god came down and said, get out of bed and get some cereal for breakfast, I might just shrug and cover my head under the duvet. But these people instead created some of the most magnificent choral works we’ve heard. \* yes. I know. I have been bad. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/5 "2024-11-17T12:09:54Z")
Can’t answer your question; I failed at both singing and playing. My late wife did both successfully on the local club circuit. But yeah, as a devout atheist I can still get behind some classical religious music. Handel’s _Messiah_ done by a large choir is just an essential part of Christmas even though the “christ” part is meaningless to me. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/6 "2024-11-17T14:23:00Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > But he is a really talented musician. He has 8 guitars and an antique electronic keyboard. He’s enthusiastic and a good musician. Just a piss-poor singer. Flat, off tune, you name it. WIth an instrument like a keyboard or guitar, as long as the instrument itself is in tune, being on key and hitting the right notes is a matter of getting your fingers to do the right things, which is presumably a different skill from getting your voice to do the right things. I can imagine three possible explanations for why he sings poorly: an issue with his hearing, with his vocal apparatus, or with his giving a darn. Either he can’t hear that he’s not hitting the right notes, or he can’t control his voice to hit the right notes, or the time you heard him he was just goofing off and didn’t care whether he was hitting the right notes. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/7 "2024-11-17T14:24:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Handel’s _Messiah_ done by a large choir Zadok the Priest, too, though it is not as well known. Really short, really great. Handel had, lets say, a handle on great works. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MiXgOQ9_-RI/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGHIgVyg_MA8=&rs=AOn4CLAYgFdXlutRC9Z-UKfuPTdXR1ST0A "Zadok the Priest — Choir of Westminster Abbey") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiXgOQ9_-RI) ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/8 "2024-11-17T17:02:49Z")
Even as great a musician as Phil Lesh was an amazingly poor singer. What’s especially puzzling is that he continued to sing in concert. Did he not recognize his limitations? Did he not care? It was a mystery to us Deadheads for years. Typical example: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/K99ztkudVe8/maxresdefault.jpg "Phil Lesh & Friends - "Box of Rain" - Mountain Jam 2013") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K99ztkudVe8) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/9 "2024-11-17T17:13:28Z")
There are well-known musical prodigies with perfect pitch who are barely adequate at singing, at best (though they are in tune, at least :). Got to take some voice lessons and develop the correct technique! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/10 "2024-11-17T17:19:04Z")
Kind of a mystery to me. I’ve always had good pitch and range from an early age, and a good ear, and can play passable guitar, although percussion is my first love. My kids all have musical ability, with my eldest majoring in music in college. What surprises me about him is that he never had a decent voice as a teen, but he now sings in a community choir. He played a passable clarinet in HS band, but rarely practiced so never got really good at it. I’ve never had voice lessons, but I’m guessing that a person can be taught proper pitch and control? Is that a wrong assumption? ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/11 "2024-11-17T17:37:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Handel’s _Messiah_ done by a large choir Zadok the Priest, too, though it is not as well known. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/12 "2024-11-17T17:45:55Z")
In my case, yes. I had a good voice from a young age but pitch control was something I was taught, by various levels of tutorship. I will never be an operatic baritone, but I am a decent bass and still an OK tenor. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/13 "2024-11-17T18:14:51Z")
Has your housemate tried unsuccessfully to learn to sing? Or has he just never tried to? Singing has to be learned, just like an instrument. I’m a guitar player who never wanted to sing, but I kept finding myself in situations where we didn’t have a singer. So I would get in front of the mic and wing it. I was terrible at first. But I kept getting pushed in front of the mic. This gave me practice, and motivation to practice more in private–if you know you’re going to be singing in public, you’ll want to improve. Today, I still play guitar, but singing has become my strong point. In contrast, my younger brother is one of the most accomplished musicians I personally know. Trained formally, master’s degree in music, retired from a professional career. He has outstanding pitch. But he never wanted to sing, so he can’t. To the OP: FWIW I consider violin and trumpet _both_ very difficult to play well. Certainly harder than guitar. So you may be underrating your potential. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/14 "2024-11-17T18:16:58Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Has your housemate tried unsuccessfully to learn to sing? Or has he just never tried to? I will ask. I am not professionally trained but I guess lots of years in the school choir helped me. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/15 "2024-11-17T23:07:17Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Even as great a musician as Phil Lesh was an amazingly poor singer. He sounds like Caruso compared to when Jeff Beck tried to sing. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/16 "2024-11-17T23:48:02Z")
I play guitar, not very well, and I can sing on key. My problem is that I have what is possibly the worst singing voice on the planet. Imagine Dennis Hopper drinking whiskey, smoking a cigar and doing his best impression of Stevie Nicks… ---
**Author:** ![Apodder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apodder/32/17727_2.png) [@Apodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apodder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/17 "2024-11-18T01:18:59Z")
Oh…Stevie Nicks…what a terrible voice… ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/18 "2024-11-18T01:50:59Z")
It was mentioned upthread. Playing an in-tune musical instrument is to a certain extent a mechanical exercise. So long as you can keep good time, if you have the dexterity, you can become adept at a given instrument. Someone might have a very limited range or horrible vocal tone, but if they have no problems with pitch, they can at least carry a tune. But you ain’t gonna make it as a singer. I would guess that someone who has pitch issues would likewise have at least some difficulty with an instrument that has “by ear” elements. For example, guitarists have to bend strings as a specific technique to make a note sharp. Most often it’s a bend of a full or half step, but sometimes it’s just a nudge (less than a semi-tone) or a real big two-step jump. An over- or under-bend can sound horrible. With improvisation on guitar, I’d imagine that’s at least a challenge for a pitchy singer. If he can’t hear it when he’s flat singing, I don’t know why he’d detect it when he’s playing. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/19 "2024-11-18T02:08:30Z")
Getting the correct pitch with your voice is a complex interaction of your ears, brain, and your singing muscles (the technical term) and making all the microscopic adjustments between them. Many people can do this without even thinking about it (me, although I got much better with voice lessons). And some can’t seem to. They can hear the pitch and get it right with their instrument, but not with their voice. I’ve known quite a few, when I think about it. Having a _beautiful_ voice is separate. That is mostly genetics. I know singers who are much better technically than I am, but they sound gravelly, or metallic, or wispy. I was given good pipes – lyric soprano range, warm round tone with a lot of color in it. I did nothing to achieve that. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351/20 "2024-11-18T02:22:14Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > They can hear the pitch and get it right with their instrument, but not with their voice. I’ve known quite a few, when I think about it. Those who you’ve known, did they hear they were singing “off”? Did they know they were hitting bad notes, but couldn’t figure out how to rectify? I ask because the people I’ve known who have pitch issues singing seemed oblivious to it. They wailed away, appearing to believe they were following a melody instead of butchering it. _American Idol_ had countless examples of this, dopes who were convinced they were great singers who were horrible. I guess some of those I’ve known were at least aware something was off, but they’d have been hard-pressed to tell you where their singing jumped the rails. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/correlation-between-voice-musical-talent/1010351.md?page=2)