# Corruption in College Basketball - DoJ to have major presser at 12pm (EST) today. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 26, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345 "2017-09-26T13:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/21 "2017-09-27T00:16:37Z")
Yeah, but with shoe companies involved, if a player goes pro after doing that, what do you think his chances are of getting endorsement deals anywhere? So if it hadn’t been for the double dipping in federal grant money, the FBI would never have gotten involved to begin with, right? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/22 "2017-09-27T00:30:40Z")
I’m sure the IRS will be very interested in who has received money. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/23 "2017-09-27T00:54:34Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Man, this is gonna be huge. Surprised that so far no athletes seem to be included as knowing participants. Would they have necessarily broken any laws? It’s not like NCAA rules are enforced by criminal law. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/24 "2017-09-27T01:02:24Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Would they have necessarily broken any laws? It’s not like NCAA rules are enforced by criminal law. Tax evasion if they didn’t report it? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/25 "2017-09-27T01:05:41Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Would they have necessarily broken any laws? It’s not like NCAA rules are enforced by criminal law. Could they be charged with accepting a bribe? The bribe sought to change their behavior in pursuit of a public duty? > **[Bribery](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery)** > > Bribery is the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official, or other person, in charge of a public or legal duty and to incline the individual to act contrary to their duty and the known rules of honesty and integrity. With regard to governmental operations, essentially, bribery is "Corrupt solicitation, acceptance, or transfer of value in exchange for official action." Bung is British slang for a bribe. > Gifts of money or other items of... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/26 "2017-09-27T02:31:27Z")
I think that the athletes are viewed as the victims here, not the perpetrators. And even if that’s not the reality, it’s how the court of public opinion would see it, and ultimately all other courts are subservient to the court of public opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/27 "2017-09-27T03:13:57Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Would they have necessarily broken any laws? It’s not like NCAA rules are enforced by criminal law. If it’s considered fraud to pay a coach to steer an athlete to a company, not sure why the athlete knowingly colluding in that crime wouldn’t make them an accomplice. Ultimately, I think the biggest hurdle here will be for the FBI to prove there was a clear quid pro quo and that if there was, it rises to the level of fraud. I don’t think in most circumstances it’ll be viewed as illegal to simply pay a person in authority to advocate on your behalf. Slimy, and definitely against NCAA rules, but I’m curious exactly what the legal standard is. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/28 "2017-09-27T15:03:36Z")
No link at the moment (sorry…text alert on my phone), but Rick Pitino said that he fully expects to lose his job over his role in things. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/29 "2017-09-27T15:04:00Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m shocked. Shocked to find corruption in a business that uses free labor to generate profits and high pay for coaches and administrators. Now I suppose you’re also going to tell me people gamble on the outcome of these basketball games. I can’t imagine how things turned out this way. I’m glad somebody posted this. Respected sports economists are shaking their heads today at the absurdity of it all – of course there’s going to be money funneled to talented athletes in a system that actively restrains the simplest components of capitalism. This also seems to be dangerously close to the FBI doing the NCAA’s dirty work for it. > [@](#): > > And yet, in a statement, Acting Manhattan U.S. Attorney Joon H. Kim came down firmly on the side of both the NCAA and amateurism itself. He hammered away at the defendants, who he says, see athletes as “little more than opportunities to enrich themselves,” though Kim somehow fails to notice that he’s come up with a fairly accurate description of the NCAA. > > “The defendants’ alleged criminal conduct not only sullied the spirit of amateur athletics,” Kim’s statement continues, waxing nostalgic for a realm of athletic purity that never existed to begin with, “but showed contempt for the thousands of players and coaches who follow the rules, and play the game the right way.” Why is the FBI defending amateurism instead of attacking it as they should? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/30 "2017-09-27T15:24:26Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > This also seems to be dangerously close to the FBI doing the NCAA’s dirty work for it. > > Why is the FBI defending amateurism instead of attacking it as they should? Aye, that line bothered me as I watched the press conference. And I have yet to hear exactly what laws they are accused of breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/31 "2017-09-27T15:33:22Z")
No, no, amateurism is good. The problem is that we’ve never actually pursued it. Why is the highest-paid state employee in most states a college sports coach? Why are college sports coaches even paid at all? What do sports have to do with education, which is supposed to be the purpose of colleges? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/32 "2017-09-27T15:35:00Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > I’m glad somebody posted this. Respected sports economists are shaking their heads today at the absurdity of it all – of course there’s going to be money funneled to talented athletes in a system that actively restrains the simplest components of capitalism. > > This also seems to be dangerously close to the FBI doing the NCAA’s dirty work for it. > > Why is the FBI defending amateurism instead of attacking it as they should? Why not just link to the article you just summarized? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/33 "2017-09-27T15:35:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye, that line bothered me as I watched the press conference. > > And I have yet to hear exactly what laws they are accused of breaking. I think there are rules on the books about employees of institutions which receive federal funding accepting outside fees for actions that may run contrary to the institutions’ purposes. There may also be fraud perpetrated against the athletes themselves, as steering funds to them makes them ineligible under NCAA rules (yes, I know, haha). The first wouldn’t be necessary and the second wouldn’t be unusual if it weren’t for the schools going all Alamo about amateurism. I wonder if the schools are feeling more confident these days with a conservative congress and a high powered lobby operating on behalf of the athletic directors? If some pinko judge rules against them, there’s still that magical antitrust exemption to pursue. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/34 "2017-09-27T15:39:01Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Why not just link to the article you just summarized? [Sorry, should have.](http://www.thedailybeast.com/forget-bribes-the-real-ncaa-crime-is-exploiting-athletes) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/35 "2017-09-27T15:43:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye, that line bothered me as I watched the press conference. > > And I have yet to hear exactly what laws they are accused of breaking. Here you go. > **[N.C.A.A. Coaches, Adidas Executive Face Charges; Pitino’s Program Implicated...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/sports/ncaa-adidas-bribery.html?referer=http:%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)** > > A criminal complaint filed in Manhattan charged that several coaches used their positions to solicit and obtain bribes from a financial adviser and business manager to steer athletes to them. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/36 "2017-09-27T15:45:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, no, amateurism is good. The problem is that we’ve never actually pursued it. Why is the highest-paid state employee in most states a college sports coach? Why are college sports coaches even paid at all? What do sports have to do with education, which is supposed to be the purpose of colleges? Because college football and basketball bring in millions of dollars…and finance the rest of the sports that are expensive and lose money. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/37 "2017-09-27T15:47:26Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > I think there are rules on the books about employees of institutions which receive federal funding accepting outside fees for actions that may run contrary to the institutions’ purposes. There may also be fraud perpetrated against the athletes themselves, as steering funds to them makes them ineligible under NCAA rules (yes, I know, haha). The first wouldn’t be necessary and the second wouldn’t be unusual if it weren’t for the schools going all Alamo about amateurism. Sports Illustrated has a decent high-level layman’s summary of the charges at the end of [this article](https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/09/26/fbi-corruption-college-basketball-fraud-louisville-bribe) (see everything under “The Charges” heading). The feds have an interest because of the interstate aspect of the bribes and because the federal government supports the schools through grants, financial aid, and tax breaks. > [@](#): > > With that background in mind, the Justice Department charges that the coaches and financial advisors conspired to commit bribery through educational programs that receive federal funds…Under federal law, a person associated with such a program faces up to 10 years in prison if convicted of agreeing to accept anything of value from any person, “intending to be influenced or rewarded in connection with any business, transaction, or series of transactions of such organization, government, or agency involving any thing of value of $5,000 or more." Other charges include[ul] [li]“Honest services wire fraud" - wire communication to engage in fraudulent acts. [/li][li]Depriving the coaches’ employing universities “of their intangible right to their employees’ honest services"[/li][li]Travel Act conspiracy: travel in interstate commerce, or use of mail or any facility in interstate, with the intent to distribute the proceeds of any unlawful activity or “promote, manage, establish, carry on, or facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, or carrying on, of any unlawful activity." [/li][li]Conspiracy to commit wire fraud in a scheme to defraud high school athletes and their families[/li][li]Money laundering[/li][li]Conspiracy to “steer" college athletes to use specific services, which deprives the (government-funded) university of its “intangible" right to the coaches’ services.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/38 "2017-09-27T15:48:14Z")
ESPN now reporting Pitino and Louisville AD out. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/39 "2017-09-27T15:52:40Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Here you go. > > [https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/sports/ncaa-adidas-bribery.html?referer=http://www.google.com/](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/sports/ncaa-adidas-bribery.html?referer=http://www.google.com/) I read the article (thanks!) but didn’t see any statutes or laws mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/40 "2017-09-27T15:55:57Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > ESPN now reporting Pitino and Louisville AD out. The AP just posted [this story](https://apnews.com/e801c87f16bc4060811c23c93f5dcb72/College-basketball-takes-a-big-hit-with-arrests) a few hours ago, and it has this quote from Coach Pitino: > [@Rick Pitino](#): > > These allegations come as a complete shock to me. If true, I agree with the U.S. Attorney’s Office that these third-party schemes, initiated by a few bad actors, operated to commit a fraud on the impacted universities and their basketball programs, including the University of Louisville. Our fans and supporters deserve better and I am committed to taking whatever steps are needed to ensure those responsible are held accountable. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! He may have a future as a comedian, eh! ETA: I can’t find any other stories about Pitino being fired (or resigning) other than the ESPN one, but [Louisville did schedule a press conference for a bit later today](https://apnews.com/7e1b85009dbc4f3496c8b381e8fbcd1a/Louisville-schedules-news-conference-in-midst-of-scandal). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345.md?page=3)