# Corruption in College Basketball - DoJ to have major presser at 12pm (EST) today. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 26, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345 "2017-09-26T13:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/61 "2017-09-27T21:45:17Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > What would a “firing” look like? I understand that many universities give only 1 year scholorships while others give 4 year although non-guaranteed scholorships. If athletes were to get a straight salary/stipend, I can see universities announcing cut lists like they do in pro sports. Maybe there can be a compromise where once an athlete signs a scholorship he may be cut from the team and not count against the svholorship limit while still keeping all academic and living cost benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/62 "2017-09-27T22:29:00Z")
College sports have been a joke for a long time. Everybody knew this kind of stuff has been going on. One nice thing about pro sports is they don’t pretend to care about stuff beyond Ws and Ls and cash. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/63 "2017-09-28T02:37:04Z")
I understand that these are clear violations of NCAA rules, but how is it “fraud”? If I pay a top high school athlete $500k to play football at my favorite university, who am I defrauding? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/64 "2017-09-28T02:57:21Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > No one denies that they receive some compensation. The issue is whether schools have the right to limit their compensation – from any and all sources. I think that schools have usurped this power mostly because until now nobody thought to complain about it. Sue on what grounds? I don’t think the courts would intervene into a voluntary agreement by all sides. They didn’t with running back Maurice Clarett who argued he should be allowed to play in the NFL before his junior class year was done. Go play semi pro ball like former Cardinal first round pick Eric Swann did. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/65 "2017-09-28T03:03:35Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I understand that these are clear violations of NCAA rules, but how is it “fraud”? If I pay a top high school athlete $500k to play football at my favorite university, who am I defrauding? From what I understand, it’s fraud if you then accept federal grants that are predicated on there not being any under the table income. Plus whatever lies the defendants told on tax forms and financial statements to secretly move the money. And with football, it’s usually done by someone who’s officially an outsider, for plausible deniability. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/66 "2017-09-28T05:47:56Z")
[The AP has a good article about how the Feds got inside](https://apnews.com/d557923ee14b469fa3f93974631017f0/Obscure-con-man-steals-spotlight-as-informant-in-hoops-probe): > [@](#): > > A once-obscure admitted con man named Louis Martin “Marty” Blazer III may have failed in his scheme to make low-budget movies with money swiped from pro athletes, but he’s now succeeded in stealing part of the spotlight in a scandal that’s shaken college basketball to its core. > > Federal authorities revealed this week that Blazer was the wily informant — referred to in criminal complaints only as CW-1 “cooperating witness-1” — who played a central role in a federal bribery investigation of assistant coaches at four top-tier basketball schools. > > “I’m aware of people who are willing to do this,” federal prosecutors say Blazer told authorities in 2014 when he agreed to wear a wire and buddy up to coaches who took covert payments in exchange for encouraging top-flight NBA prospects to choose a particular school, agent or financial adviser. > > Blazer, 46, posed as an experienced — and corrupt — financial adviser and business manager while helping the FBI make hundreds of recordings — a ruse resulting in a case charging 10 people, including coaches from Auburn, Southern California, Arizona and Oklahoma State. Classic informant story, really, if you read the rest: he was in legal trouble himself, and he saw a way to get out of some it, so he took it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/67 "2017-09-28T12:02:31Z")
How can there be a coaching scandal that does NOT involve John Calipari? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/68 "2017-09-28T12:48:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How can there be a coaching scandal that does NOT involve John Calipari? Give it a little more time 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/69 "2017-09-28T12:49:59Z")
Aye; I bet he’s not sleeping well recently. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/70 "2017-09-28T16:06:26Z")
Lots of stuff going on right now, but before I start linking, I want to make a prediction: This scandal will directly help end the NCAA’s illegal cartel as we know it and lead to players being paid by the schools. I have no doubt that the NCAA will fight every change, but IMO this is the first real nail in the coffin. I know that some of y’all are gonna say that it’s not that big a scandal, but I believe there’s good reasons to think it is. [Jay Bilas isn’t as optimistic](http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20841877/until-ncaa-solves-money-problem-pays-athletes-problems-continue), and I admit I can’t really discount any of what he says in that column. [Nike’s EYBL served with subpoena by federal investigators](http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20847512/nike-elite-youth-basketball-league-served-subpoena-sources): > [@](#): > > Sources familiar with the investigation confirmed to ESPN and ABC News that Nike’s grassroots basketball division, referred to as the Elite Youth Basketball League, has been served with a subpoena, as federal prosecutors in New York and the FBI dig deeper into what they’ve called the “dark underbelly” of college basketball. Note that Nike gave a statement that, to me, indicates that the company expects that it will not be charged with a crime, instead leaving all the blame at Merl Code’s feet. [In case anyone still thinks that Rick Pitino might not really be involved](http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20848092/louisville-cardinals-basketball-coach-rick-pitino-coach-2-federal-complaint-source): > [@](#): > > Louisville men’s basketball coach Rick Pitino, who has been placed on unpaid administrative leave amid a federal investigation into fraud and corruption, is the “Coach-2” who played a role in funneling money to a recruit, a source confirmed to ABC News on Thursday. > > According to court records, Christian Dawkins, the former agent for ASM Sports who was charged in both parts of the college basketball case, told the cooperating witness, Marty Blazer, that he helped funnel $100,000 to the family of recruit Brian Bowen “at the request of a coach,” identified as “Coach-2.” He’s done. His career is over. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/71 "2017-09-28T16:23:03Z")
[If anyone wants a blow-by-blow of the whole investigation, ESPN posted this 20 hours ago](http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20834050/the-story-how-fbi-brought-words-corruption). It’s very detailed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/72 "2017-09-28T16:31:16Z")
I wouldn’t feel too sorry for the poor, unpaid, exploited college athletes. ☹ _“Colleges are already compensating their student athletes with tuition, room, board, coaching, nutritional support, and physical trainers that can exceed $100,000 per year in value. Student athletes are already paid and the current system is pretty close to as fair as we are going to get. Paying a few of them more will not improve college sports.”_ > **[Pay College Athletes? They're Already Paid Up To $125,000 Per Year](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2013/08/29/pay-college-athletes-theyre-already-paid-up-to-125000year/#76fb7f582b82)** > > Solutions near impossible to implement that will only create new problems. There are extra sources of compensation for college athletes as well. > **[They’re not paychecks, but major college athletes got extra scholarship...](https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/article86062792.html)** > > Full-scholarship athletes at major programs were given about $2,000 to $5,000 more per year The hypocrisy/abusive situation in which certain athletes are encouraged/compelled to attend college despite a lack of interest and/or qualifications should end, preferably by pro leagues financing a viable minor league system out of their bloated profits (including scholarship funds for athletes who don’t make it at the pro level, so it’s possible for them to attend school later in hopes of attaining a viable career). As for Pitino, in whose case we should not “rush to judgment” (snerk), there’s always going to be a job for a winning coach - if not at the university level, then in pro sports. An exception would be a Sandusky-level morals situation. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/73 "2017-09-28T16:47:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I wouldn’t feel too sorry for the poor, unpaid, exploited college athletes. ☹ > > _“Colleges are already compensating their student athletes with tuition, room, board, coaching, nutritional support, and physical trainers that can exceed $100,000 per year in value. Student athletes are already paid and the current system is pretty close to as fair as we are going to get. Paying a few of them more will not improve college sports.”_ Some of us don’t give a shit if letting college athletes get paid on the open market “improves college sports”. Some of us are concerned that the people arguably most critical to the success of the multi-billion dollar product have their recompense remarkably restricted purely so schools, coaches, NCAA executives, etc. else can keep their hands on all that money. And the “compensation” they’re receiving is purely aimed at improving their ability to play, and make money for the colleges. If they want to do something crazy like go on vacation for a couple of weeks, or buy a present for their mother, the “compensation” isn’t doing a damn thing for them. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/74 "2017-09-28T17:00:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How can there be a coaching scandal that does NOT involve John Calipari? Calipari knows how to cover his ass. Pitino knows but DGAF and got sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/75 "2017-09-28T17:08:33Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > This issue is not necessarily about pay from the schools to the athletes. It is more about athletes’ earnings from any and all sources. One of the board experts can correct me if I’m wrong but if Booster Bob wanted to hire Football Jock to hawk his car dealership, I don’t think he’s bound to offer an equivalent deal to Lady Field Hockey. Bylaw 12.4.1.1: “(Payment for employment) may not include any remuneration for value or utility that the student-athlete may have for the employer because of the publicity, reputation, fame or personal following that he or she has obtained because of athletics ability.” Translation: Booster Bob cannot hire Football Jock to shill his cars if it is clear that Football Jock was hired because he is a football player. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Lots of stuff going on right now, but before I start linking, I want to make a prediction: This scandal will directly help end the NCAA’s illegal cartel as we know it and lead to players being paid by the schools. I have no doubt that the NCAA will fight every change, but IMO this is the first real nail in the coffin. See any one of my “Title IX” comments to pretty much any “pay the players” remarks, including one earlier in this thread, to see why, if they do pay the players, they will pretty much have to pay every player in every sport the same thing. However, I have heard that, especially in light of things like the Ed O’Bannon lawsuit, the NCAA may end up allowing the players to accept money from non-university sources, although whether or not there are restrictions (for example, an athlete still cannot be paid by a booster to choose to attend a particular school - whether or not a company that has business dealings with the school can is another matter); in any case, as long as the university keeps its hands clear of the money, Title IX does not apply. Of course, there is a wild card in the scholarship discussion: Bernie Sanders. If he ever does manage to get the “free public school tuition for all” thing passed, and then, when he realizes that poor families are still effectively shut out of most colleges, “That includes housing, food, and required books as well,” then public school athletic scholarships - and the scholarship limits that go with them - are pretty much meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/76 "2017-09-28T17:27:58Z")
The fed will never fund housing food nor books. Its too expensive. Also, if the feds are paying the bills that state run schools and publishers will jack up prices. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/77 "2017-09-28T17:41:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I know that some of y’all are gonna say that it’s not that big a scandal, but I believe there’s good reasons to think it is. This is definitely huge. A single school or agent or coach getting busted is news. Many schools and many coaches getting busted is a systemic problem. No one in their right mind should think that the FBI rooted out the few bad apples in the system. They just caught the ones unlucky/dumb enough to be caught. There’s no coach out there that can compete with a six figure payment honestly. If you look at a coach that consistently is getting top recruits year in and year out they are paying for them. There’s no other way. No coach is that much better than their peers to be worth giving up a six figure payment. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/78 "2017-09-28T18:26:45Z")
In reference to “the athletes are paid via scholarship”, I’d just note that the schools don’t prevent their other scholarship students from working outside jobs, or require that they sit out physics classes for a year if they transfer to a new school. Nor is the school penalized if a head of department pays for student to fly home for her mother’s funeral. What makes student-physicists different from student-athletes? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/79 "2017-09-28T18:46:49Z")
Not only that, if IBM wanted to pay my way through school… no problem. If the NY Giants want to… problem. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/80 "2017-09-28T18:49:16Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Bylaw 12.4.1.1: “(Payment for employment) may not include any remuneration for value or utility that the student-athlete may have for the employer because of the publicity, reputation, fame or personal following that he or she has obtained because of athletics ability.” > > Translation: Booster Bob cannot hire Football Jock to shill his cars if it is clear that Football Jock was hired because he is a football player. > See any one of my “Title IX” comments to pretty much any “pay the players” remarks, including one earlier in this thread, to see why, if they do pay the players, they will pretty much have to pay every player in every sport the same thing. > > However, I have heard that, especially in light of things like the Ed O’Bannon lawsuit, the NCAA may end up allowing the players to accept money from non-university sources, although whether or not there are restrictions (for example, an athlete still cannot be paid by a booster to choose to attend a particular school - whether or not a company that has business dealings with the school can is another matter); in any case, as long as the university keeps its hands clear of the money, Title IX does not apply. > > Of course, there is a wild card in the scholarship discussion: Bernie Sanders. If he ever does manage to get the “free public school tuition for all” thing passed, and then, when he realizes that poor families are still effectively shut out of most colleges, “That includes housing, food, and required books as well,” then public school athletic scholarships - and the scholarship limits that go with them - are pretty much meaningless. I would go so far as to say NCAA scholarship athletes will NEVER be paid. There might be a system of accepting outside revenue, which will have to be highly regulated and observed, but paying scholarship athletes is not the end-all-be-all argument that people think it is and the solutions presented (just pay em!) aren’t viable or feasible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345.md?page=5)