# Corruption in College Basketball - DoJ to have major presser at 12pm (EST) today. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 26, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345 "2017-09-26T13:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/121 "2017-09-29T20:03:10Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > [Appeals court rules that ban on pay for college athletes is illegal - SCOTUSblog](http://www.scotusblog.com/2015/09/appeals-court-rules-that-ban-on-pay-for-college-athletes-is-illegal/) > > The CoA ruled that while it is illegal for the NCAA to ban payments to athletes, any compensation must not exceed the cost of their scholorship. Seems like this would only help more affluent athletes. Aye, that was the NCAA using the CoA to try to sweeten the pot for the players so they’d shut up for the 1-4 years they’d be in college, IMO. Once they’re out of college sports, it’d be harder for them file suit, so who cares what they think at that point? Just shut them up while they’re useful to the NCAA. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/122 "2017-09-29T20:04:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > It was the councils opinion and does not carry the weight of an NLRB ruling. Athletes from the 17 private unis are free to file complaints but there are no guarantees they will be successful.and there have to actually be unfair labor practices which I do not see. You skipped some questions I had in the post you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/123 "2017-09-29T20:08:07Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The same reason the guy at the drive-thru window doesn’t spit in your food: he needs the money. > > Are you seriously asking “why would anyone being paid less than the top earner do a good job?” 😕 > > ETA: Arguing Title IX is like arguing that we’ll never have solar power because there aren’t enough 9V batteries to hold all the electricity, IMO. If we change the model of scholarships and compensation to a more market aligned one, why couldn’t we also change Title IX? :dubious: Everyone at a fast food restaurant gets paid. Only a handful of star athletes would. Apples and oranges. And paying male athletes while not paying female athletes… ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/124 "2017-09-29T20:15:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > In a completely different way than you do, apparently. That’s why we’re having this discussion; if we agreed we’d have stopped long ago. > > In the context of the NCAA, “amateur sports”, like the term “student-athlete” is a misnomer, meant to convey an image that isn’t met in reality. > > The law about who is and isn’t an employee does not contain complicated or archaic language. Players are clearly receiving compensation for their services as athletes. That makes them employees. Any refutation of that begins with “but” and then arbitrarily declares in some way that young people with athletic talent are not deserving of the same rights as every other human being in the country with regard to being able to freely negotiate compensation for their services (which their NCAA employers make billions of dollars using). > > In pro sports, everyone is just open about the money and players can freely negotiate for compensation. > > So I do see the differences, I just understand them differently than you do. Are students on scholarships employees? :dubious: Unlike true professionals, SA’s can’t be sold or traded. They are not taxed and the government does not recognize them as employees. The so-called profits go back into the university system to help others. Its better than having a few siphon off cash for their own personal interests. When it comes to autographs and commercials, I can see some room for compromise. If you think in a million years the Dems will ever budge on Title IX… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/125 "2017-09-29T20:31:11Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Everyone at a fast food restaurant gets paid. Only a handful of star athletes would. Apples and oranges. And paying male athletes while not paying female athletes… The only “apples to oranges” here is the way that you claim to know “only a handful of star athletes would”. Anyone wanting to field a team would find a way to compensate the players they needed, or they wouldn’t field a team. Why is that wrong? And now you’re arguing Title IX again, even tho I pointed out that as an argument it has no weight and no bearing on the subject at hand; Title IX can be changed to reflect the corrections in compensation structure. It’s a red herring because you’re talking about why the current laws very existence, which were put in place under, and in response to, the current cartel structure, mean we can’t change that very structure. It’s a circular argument. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/126 "2017-09-29T20:39:26Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Are students on scholarships employees? :dubious: The NLRB ruled that they were and that ruling has not been overturned, so yes, they are employees. > [@madsircool](#): > > Unlike true professionals, SA’s can’t be sold or traded. They are not taxed and the government does not recognize them as employees. So they perform their services as volunteers? :dubious: No; they don’t. They are compensated with scholarships. Do you dispute that characterization? I mean, can we start by agreeing or not agreeing on that point? > [@madsircool](#): > > The so-called profits go back into the university system to help others. “So-called”? Why is this here? Are you seriously in doubt as to whether or not the NCAA and it’s member schools make profits? What kind of evidence would convince you that the profits are actual and not “so-called”? > [@madsircool](#): > > Its better than having a few siphon off cash for their own personal interests. What other professions do you feel this way about? In general, do you think it is better for income to be controlled and distributed to a workforce uniformly, in amounts arbitrarily determined by the person disbursing the funds? > [@madsircool](#): > > When it comes to autographs and commercials, I can see some room for compromise. Well that’s refreshing! > [@madsircool](#): > > If you think in a million years the Dems will ever budge on Title IX… Again: arguing that changing the status quo will be difficult and so it shouldn’t be done is not an argument that carries much weight, if any. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/127 "2017-09-29T21:17:37Z")
Most NCAA schools don’t make profits, in any sport. Which doesn’t stop them for paying big bucks to coaches, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/128 "2017-09-29T21:23:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Most NCAA schools don’t make profits, in any sport. Which doesn’t stop them for paying big bucks to coaches, for some reason. It seems that part of the reason there are so little profits showing is partly _because_ of those high salaries. It’s like the non-profit charity that pays it’s director $10M/year but only disburses $20k in actual charity, citing a lack of funds to do more. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/129 "2017-09-29T21:33:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Rick Pitino misses being a coach already > > > [@](#): > > > > Pitino told WHAS-AM radio host Terry Meiners in a text: “This weekend will be the saddest . So many years of opening day of practice.” Meiners posted the text on Twitter , saying he had permission from Pitino to share the sentiments. > > Awwwww. I just found [the whole tweet](https://twitter.com/William56157552/status/913808377188372482), but it was this response that really caught my eye: > [@Bill Butler](#): > > ‏Surprised he was aware this was opening day of practice… he hasn’t been aware of anything else Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Good burn, Mr. Butler; good burn! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/130 "2017-09-30T09:20:27Z")
This whole issue of paying college athletes could be avoided if there were football and basketball minor leagues similar to what baseball has. The colleges could then have athletes that are legitimate amateurs and the ones that are likely to go pro won’t have to mess with college, they can go straight to the minor league like baseball players do. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/131 "2017-09-30T18:20:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > From what I understand, it’s fraud if you then accept federal grants that are predicated on there not being any under the table income. Plus whatever lies the defendants told on tax forms and financial statements to secretly move the money. > > And with football, it’s usually done by someone who’s officially an outsider, for plausible deniability. How does that apply to the Adidas employees? They didn’t accept federal grant funds. What bothers me is the use of the term “fraud.” I don’t understand who has been defrauded in any way. Yes, it is a violation of NCAA rules to pay players, but nobody is being lied to in order to induce him to do something. That’t the traditional definition of fraud which I am not seeing here. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/132 "2017-09-30T21:54:58Z")
According to the fed’s charges, the universities were defrauded by being denied the honest services of their employees. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/133 "2017-09-30T22:15:02Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > According to the fed’s charges, the universities were defrauded by being denied the honest services of their employees. On the theory that they hired people with the understanding that they would follow NCAA regulations? That seems spurious. If an employee stays out too late and is too hungover to come into work, I could see that being an internal disciplinary proceeding, but under this law, the employer could argue that they have been defrauded. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/134 "2017-10-01T22:48:56Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > According to the fed’s charges, the universities were defrauded by being denied the honest services of their employees. Which is why critics of the FBI’s actions are accusing the Bureau of carrying the schools’ water for them – they are kinda sorta entrenching the NCAA rulebook into the criminal code. Changing gears, I’m glad Bo brought up the circular argument charge. “You can’t pay them because this is amatuer sports” is almost the definition of circular arguments. It’s this last vestige of “amateurism” which is under scrutiny and legal attack. The amateur requirement was abolished by the Olympics and it is probably only a matter of time until it’s a non-factor in college athletics as well. I still don’t understand how people spend their earnings or how other people might react to higher skilled people receiving higher earnings is (1) uniquely applicable somehow to college athletes and (2) justification for denying an individual the same commercial rights enjoyed by every other American adult. These arguments fly in the face of everyday experience. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/135 "2017-10-03T00:22:47Z")
[AP story here](https://apnews.com/a6d5ddf890cc45edbf838ce5262d0634/Louisville-board-OKs-firing-of-Pitino-in-hoops-scandal): > [@](#): > > Louisville’s interim president was authorized Monday to fire Rick Pitino because of a federal bribery investigation, a scandal that has shaken the university and brought down one of the most prominent coaches in college basketball. > > The school’s Athletics Association, a separate body of officials that oversees Louisville’s sports programs, unanimously approved a resolution to fire Pitino after meeting for more than two hours on Monday. > [@](#): > > Pitino maintains he has done nothing wrong, saying in a statement Wednesday through his lawyer that the “rush to judgment is regrettable.” :dubious::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/136 "2017-10-12T15:27:46Z")
So, the NCAA has established a blue collar commission to conduct a wide ranging investigation of shenanigans in college revenue sports while instructing said commission that the concept of amateurism is not up for debate. This is a little like investigating gangland murders in 1927 Chicago without examining the influence of Prohibition. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/137 "2017-10-12T19:03:32Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > So, the NCAA has established a blue collar commission to conduct a wide ranging investigation of shenanigans in college revenue sports **while instructing said commission that the concept of amateurism is not up for debate**. This is a little like investigating gangland murders in 1927 Chicago without examining the influence of Prohibition. Pardon me for asking, but where did you see this? Although the concept of amateurism is not mentioned in the committee’s charter, it also isn’t expressly prohibited, and I have a feeling that Grant Hill and/or David Robinson are going to bring up the concept of money. Meanwhile, nobody seems to think that this sort of a thing is a problem in football as well… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/138 "2017-10-13T15:30:18Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > So, the NCAA has established a blue collar commission to conduct a wide ranging investigation of shenanigans in college revenue sports while instructing said commission that the concept of amateurism is not up for debate. This is a little like investigating gangland murders in 1927 Chicago without examining the influence of Prohibition. More like investigating gangland murders while denying that any such thing as “gangs” exist. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/139 "2017-10-13T15:43:09Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > So, the NCAA has established a blue collar commission to conduct a wide ranging investigation of shenanigans in college revenue sports while instructing said commission that the concept of amateurism is not up for debate. This is a little like investigating gangland murders in 1927 Chicago without examining the influence of Prohibition. Did you mean blue ribbon instead of blue collar? The idea of a blue collar commission is intriguing. I wonder what they would determine? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345/140 "2017-10-13T18:28:58Z")
“Because college ball can be really boring, The Blue Collar Commission recommends that the Harlem Globetrotters be admitted as a Division 1 program.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/corruption-in-college-basketball-doj-to-have-major-presser-at-12pm-est-today/797345.md?page=8)