Actually, he IS an expert in education; he has a doctorate in the subject.
Or they are models of something based on talent but become role models because of materialistic success.
Recently I was watching a tv show about a program at John Hopkins in Baltimore, where at-risk young black men are given a chance to meet drug addicts who are in long-term care at JH. Some of the addicts had gangrenous limbs, cancer, multiple tumors, had been severely disfigured in car accident, had burns, etc. In any case, the addicts were begging the young men to not take the path they had taken, or they’d end up in a hospital bed at age 32 with a nurse hanging by to wipe their asses because they can’t even do it for themselves anymore.
The doctor who was giving the young men the tour was a black man, a successful surgeon who had originally come from the same streets they had some 15 years prior. At the end of the day, he asked the group how they felt about what they saw (most were pretty shellshocked), and what role model they might choose to help them see a better way of life for themselves.
Every single kid named a pro-basketball or football player. When the doctor asked if they could name anyone else who wasn’t an athlete to consider as a role model, none of the young men could name one.
So what. Some things need to be repeated until the problems become adressed.
As a news reader, it’s nice to see someone open up and attempt to deal with the problems that cause so much of the news.
Wrong. It necessitates further discussion across the board which can only be good. When whites and blacks both understand the problems in the black community then working together to solve the problems becomes tenfold easier.
No again. He’s getting the attention because he speaks the truth. So many blacks in the community have chosen to ignore the facts, not Cosby, he’s finally the spokesperson for the causes that have rooted themselves deeply into the black community. Name another person on a national scale that has brought so much attention to the situation(s).
Naw, his stuff just ran its course.
I hate to say this but the same things that Cosby is saying have been going around the talk radio circuit for years now. Whites knew what the problems were.
Blacks knew what the problems were. Now the Blacks know the Whites know and vice versa. Maybe now we can work together to address the problems in all communities regardless of color or race. Maybe Cosby has begun to tear down the wall that has prevented interracial co-operation of racially segregate problems.
No. I’m talking about a time where most children had a mother and father at home watching after them. The children knew also who their father was.
Traditional family values would solve a lot of today’s problems.
Throwing public money so you can have a clean conscious doesn’t solve the problem. Being poor does not mean you can’t improve and can’t accept personal responsibility for your actions. Teaching skills to people that have a work ethic nurtured via those same family values will break the current cycle of despair be allowing ppl to earn self respect and a sense of accomplishment.
This might sound a little silly, but your post got me a little teary. I’m not black, but I am a visible minority and a female. I’m 20 years old and I go to university, and being the young person I am, I sometimes still wonder what I’m doing in school.
Thanks for reminding me.
Excweeze me, but Mr. Cosby has a doctorate in education from U.Mass.
Well, I didn’t mean the problem started 20 years ago, I know it’s been going on a lot longer than that. What I meant was that about 20 years ago, all the child-rearing “experts” started implying that to tell a child that they were wrong would be harmful to the child in the long-term. Therefore, long about 20 years ago, a movement started in which it became hip and stylish to give kids the message that they should never be ashamed of anything they do, and if they screw up, it’s not their fault. This has made an ongoing problem even worse.
BTW, I’m a woman.
hmmm? I thought you were older than that. Cosby took a fair amount of criticism on several occasions in the last 20 years for publicly stating that blacks were morally superior to whites, that black women were better (stronger? tougher?) than white women, that whites just didn’t “get it,” and several other comments.
I know more than a few people who became quite upset with him for “bashing” whites (although I never figured they had legitimate cause).
Within the black community (where it does not show up on white TV) Jackson has been saying that same message for over thirty years. I think his recent stunts defending brawling students have been more than counter-productive, but is incorrect to assume that he has not proclaimed the same message that Cosby has.
I believe you should have quoted Rev. Jackson in his entirety:
(italics mine) Jackson appears to be in complete agreeement with Cosby, here.
FWIW I’ve gotten the impression that Cosby has been quite consistent over time in focusing his passions and energy specifically on black issues. It might be stretching it to say he ignores white opinons, but not by much. This might be totally off base in interpretation but I’ve gotten the impression Cosby pretty much ignores what whites might think. He just puts his priority firmly on his own people, with eveyrbody and everything else coming second. Which isn’t a criticism, btw, either morally or politically. He’s just very…focused, as if he doesn’t have the time, energy or inclination to give a whoop what white might make of his comments, as they weren’t addressed to them. A bit imperious, but hey, that’s Cosby.
Interesting, because I had a long (hour) conversation a few weeks ago w/ an older black man in my community–office holder and activist–who said much the same things. I’ve worked with him for quite a while, developing programs and networks for at-risk teens, so it wasn’t like he was speaking “for the record”. He was very tough minded about ingrained, systemic problems like ridiculously inadequate schools, poverty, plain old racism, etc. But he was equally tough minded about what perpetuates that cycle. So monstro is absolutely right: Cosby didn’t say a thing lots of people know all too well and are working hard to change at the grassroots level.
I haven’t the faintest idea whether Cosby’s very public comments will be beneficial or not. He was preaching to the choir. I don’t think he particularly cares what whites might make of it, but for whites who see validation of prejudice (“See? He said it was their fault!” others might see it as an opening a door for cooperation.
This is just me, but I wish Cosby had put his imperiousness aside in favor of using his considerable public voice addressing the horrendous problems in public schools. The recent thread about the Brooklyn (?) high school valedictorian who excoriated her school for its flagrant inadequacies sprang to my mind. That exceptional young lady succeeded despite her school. Kids get the message very clearly and early when they’re dismissed as expendable. If a graduating high school senior could make that point so emphatically, what could Cosby do?
Veb
I don’t think that anyone is saying that Cosby’s ideas are strikingly profound. Lots of people may know it all too well, but obviously not the targets of his statements. I think he should keep preaching to the choir, at least untill the choir can start giving sermons.
Seems to me Cosby was trying to fight ignorance. Where have I heard that phrase before? Let’s not dismiss his statements with a “Well duh, improvement is needed” and actually act on it.
He wasn’t trying to tell people things that they didn’t know, he was trying to motivate them to actually do something about it. Spare me the “people are trying” excuses (no specific post in mind). If enough was being done and accomplished, his statement would have never been uttered.
Maybe Cosby reached the inner part of a few families that made them realize that a distict change is needed. Maybe they will change the way they do things for the better. Maybe his words will inspire people to rise up and make something of themselves.
Maybe we’ll just say “Everybody knows that already” and ignore it. Nobody could possibly still be ignorant about that right?
I’m not disputing your general thrust, dnooman, just observing that monstro had a perfectly valid point in that Cosby wasn’t speaking to people who didn’t already fully appreciate the scope and depth of the problem too. They were hardly indifferent or naive. Which I know wasn’t your point, so please don’t misunderstand my intent here.
Maybe Cosby was trying to redirect attention back toward an emphasis on education and achievement, away from popular dead-ends. I strongly suspect that particular choir has been preaching it less publicly i.e. less visibly to whites, emphatically and for quite a while. That doesn’t take a thing away from Cosby or the validity of his message. There’s just a fine line between inspiration and patronization, especially when celebrities are involved. I just don’t wonder if the reception “in-house”, so to speak, was less than glowing just because he was speaking to the already committed. This is touchy not the least because what whites might make of the message. It’s very hard to apportion responsiblity inside when all too many people outside are all too to seize on the slightest concession as an encompassing get-outta-jail-free card.
It’s the farthest thing from easy or obvious, so I in no way fault Cosby for speaking simple truths that apply to lots of people, regardless of color. Damned few people relish hearing hard truths, regardless of color.
It shouldn’t be this complicated, but it is. And Cosby shouldn’t be the sole focal point for the problems.
Veb
Who gets really pompous and portentous when she’s tired.
This description definitely fits in with what a friend of mine experienced with his few contacts with Cosby. My friend (who is white) was in charge of security for an apartment building where one of Cosby’s kid’s was staying. When Cosby came to visit, he (Cosby) wanted to talk to Security about something to do with parking. Cosby would NOT deal with my friend at first, but instead wanted to talk to one of my friend’s employees who was black. It was a little nonsensical, because the black employee was not “in charge,” my friend was. Eventually, Cosby did grudgingly talk with my friend about his problems, because my friend was the appropriate person to deal with the problem. But it was kind of . . . strange. My friend told me of other people who dealt with Cosby and they had similar experiences—he wanted to deal with black people whenever possible, even when it was inconvenient or peculiar to do so.
This is just an antecdote and I am sure that Cosby wasn’t this . . . stubborn, I guess the word would be . . . all the time. Another (white) friend of mine, who was in show business, dealt with Cosby some years ago and absolutely adored him.
Jessie Jackson’s primary message to young people has been about developing some pride in themselves. I don’t see a conflict at all with what Cosby is saying.
As a retired teacher, I wish that Black educators, especially principals, would stop sending this not too subtle message that standards have to be lowered for Black students to make up for the lack of equal educational opportunities in the past and lack of equal parental involvement in the present. This attitude robs students of their self-confidence.
Are you sure that’s the reason? It’s more likely that there is pressure on the teacher or principal not to have more than a certain percentage of students failing. The school has to look good on paper. Meanwhile, the welfare of the student is sacrificed. It was quite common in my high school for the grades to be changed without the teacher’s knowledge – a violation of school law. We were not given access to our students’ records – another violation of school law.
I wish anybody would stop sending this message, for whatever reason. Race might be the most readibly idenfiable one, but the syndrome of schools “passing along” unparented kids reaches far beyond color lines. Not that your post implied it was limited that way, but it’s just one facet of a widespread syndrome.
And that’s another widespread facet: schools more swamped with filling out paperwork and meeting artifical, imposed requirements than actually educating kids. It’s a conundrum that doesn’t serve teachers, concerned parents or kids well, much less kids who don’t have forceful adult presences in their lives.
My sincere apologies, because I think I’m hijacking this thread. I just wish Cosby–or somebody–would speak out loud and clear on behalf of the long overdue requirement for personal responsibility for kids. 75% of my local tax bill goes to schools. And nothing’s improved. Throwing money at the problem hasn’t helped a bit. Cosby addressed one specific segment of the population, but the problem truly is endemic. And huge portions are social in nature.
Veb
You’re absolutely right that this is a big part of the equation where passing kids who should never be passed are concerned. But the bottom line is that kids still get the message that they don’t have to take responsibility for anything, and nothing is ever their fault.
Thanks for your posts, monstro. Sometimes I swear we share the same mind. 
Like I said in the other Cosby thread in GD, what Cosby said is nothing new. Black people say this about each other all the time. Black preachers make a living out of talking about our sins. Perhaps mainstream America is unaware of it because it goes on off-screen, but come on! I’ve never seen so many people get excited over the most ostensible statements! Who would’ve thought that him saying “Stop beating your wife!” would be treated like the panacea for all of our social woes? Gee, if it was so easy I wish someone had thought of doing that before.
by TVeblen
You hit the nail on the head right here. After watching clips of Cosby’s speech, I really have no problem with what he said. But I do have a problem with so many people tripping over themselves to agree with how wrong Black Culture is. The thing is, Cosby wasn’t talking about all black people. He was talking about a subset of the community that is at the bottom, in the ghetto, and are not doing anything to lift themselves out. That distinction gets blurred in these discussions, though. Suddenly, all black people, regardless of socioeconomic status and education level, are lumped in with the ghetto element. Once again, it becomes The Problem With Black People thread.
It’s infuriating in a sense because these tactics only seemed to be used with blacks, never with whites. White college frat kids drinking themselves into stupors or hazing each other with baseball bats? Never treated like an ill of white culture; it’s treated like a societal issue. White girls starving themselves so they can look like Laura Flynn Boyle? Again, it is treated like America’s problem. Not those people’s problem.
Cosby is probably aware that his comments would be used to smear all black people, but I guess he thought it was more important to verbally spank the targets of his speech rather than soften his tone. After thinking about it, I don’t really have a problem with that. But like I said in the other thread, I really wish people would ask themselves why all this is worth the praise they are giving it.
Bill Cosby gives millions of dollars away to universities and libraries, but no one makes appreciate threads when he does that. But just as soon as he gets up on stage and starts talking negatively about some black people, people are practically weeping for joy. That bothers me.
by BrotherCadfael
I have a doctorate in veterinary medicine. That doesn’t make me an expert in the field.
I guess I feel puzzled frustration by all of this. Frustration, because I’m sheltered and I didn’t always know how bad things were amongst some parts of the black community.
I know that not all black people have this problem. The black people I know (which are not that many—I grew up in a mostly-white suburb) are middle-class and conservative in nature. (My sister’s husband is black, and you won’t find a more “conservative” fellow than him! ;)) But I know that there’s a problem and I know that it is frustrating and sad. But do I feel “white guilt”? No, I don’t think so. I don’t feel responsible for some of these people’s ill fortune. I don’t know them, I’ve never met them, I’ve been so terribly sheltered, after all! And so my eyes bug open with shock when I read stuff like this:
What?!?! That’s bizarre. I had no idea until recently that this kind of mindset existed.
I hope that Cosby’s words help. I believe monstro and you with the face when you tell us that the message is nothing new. But I hope that his words help. Anything! Damn. This is a heart-breaking problem.
I think that what’s at issue here is that folks don’t talk about or demonstrate *how to prevent these problems of teenage pregnancy and illiteracy * enough. These poor, deluded, brainwashed? kids out here who think that having a baby is the answer to their problems aren’t being realistic. But I guess neither school curriculums, church sermons, political debate about not allowing schools to educate students about contraceptives, but rather promote an abstinence only policy, nor parents’ lecturing is dealing with the problem in the right way. You can talk/scold/lecture teens all you want, but it seems to me that the best way to reach them is to give them a dose of reality. Show them what’s at stake so that they can make an informed decision.
It puts me in mind of a conversation I had with a black lady who was venting about her problems trying to communicate with her terrible teen. Mind you, terrible teens transcend race and class. Anywho, she said her daughter was talking about how she wanted to have a baby. So, the lady took her daughter to the hospital and let her watch a 15 year old girl go through labor to deliver a baby. She said when her daughter left the hospital, she wasn’t talking about having no baby again. 
But even beyond showing kids about how painful childbirth can be, folks need to sit down and get teens to come up with strategies for dealing with pregnancies, no matter what age you’re at. How much does it cost to feed, shelter, and clothe a child? Where is that money going to come from? If you have to drop out of school, what kind of job can you get, and will it provide enough $$ to support you and your child?
I’ve said all this to say, that Cosby and other public figures can talk all they want, and that’s a start, but what really needs to be done is for folks to stop trying to avoid reality.
Why, the government, of course.