# Cosmic Thinker

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [November 22, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282 "2015-11-22T16:17:13Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/61 "2015-11-24T12:42:10Z")

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> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> …Is this supposed to be a bad thing? _This is how paradigms change_. You’re currently challenging the paradigm that, fundamentally, has built the modern world around you and has been more successful than any other at actually discerning the truth; why should anything short of new evidence or superior perspectives change that paradigm? Why should anyone ever change their paradigm for anything less than a superior perspective or new evidence that makes it impossible to sustain?
> 
> Also, would you care to translate the OP for those of us who are too stupid to understand what he’s talking about? I honestly don’t get it at all; it might as well be gibberish to me. If this makes me dumb, so be it, but you obviously “get it”, so maybe you should explain it to the rest of us.

I did not make a value judgement about it, I simply pointed out that it is how it works. Your post is just an affirmation of what I said, plus a questioning of an assumption that was not in the post you are responding to. Everyone defends their paradigms until it is no longer possible. In fact, a lot of people keep defending them way after it has become impossible (fundamentalist religious people for example).

I don’t really think there is much point to translating the OP since there are (IMO) much better systems freely available and that have the benefit of being backed up by plenty of research and subjected to the peer review process. He’s just trying to create a cosmological hierarchy by himself. I’m not quite as ambitious and am happy to just use those that others have created. As far as I can tell there is nothing original or especially unique about his.

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/62 "2015-11-24T13:04:36Z")

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> [@Stoneburg](#):
>
> I realize that YOU live in a culture where science is under attack from both religion and political interests, I do not. Science already won that war in the culture I live in and none of the people I associate with are anti-science, so I don’t need to spend time trying to defend it. But as I said, I appreciate that you do.

Where do you live? What area’s culture are you a part of?

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**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/63 "2015-11-24T13:06:55Z")

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> [@Stoneburg](#):
>
> I don’t really think there is much point to translating the OP since there are (IMO) much better systems freely available and that have the benefit of being backed up by plenty of research and subjected to the peer review process. He’s just trying to create a cosmological hierarchy by himself. I’m not quite as ambitious and am happy to just use those that others have created. As far as I can tell there is nothing original or especially unique about his.

I’ll do some translating, then: You can’t do it, and this is just more of that woo “Mutual Admiration Society” stuff that goes on everywhere, where y’all pretend to understand each other to provide a united front.

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**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/64 "2015-11-24T14:16:54Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> I utterly reject your contention that an insistence of removing mysticism and other undefinable and unobservable transcendence from science is anything modern or post-modern. On the contrary, it’s the same old shit, older than the Enlightenment.

I find it quite hard to find pre-Enlightenment thinkers and scientists who denied the existence of any and all hidden (i.e. “occult”) forces at work in the world. Who, if anyone, did you have in mind?

AFAIK, even among Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment thinkers, such thoughts were remarkably resilient.

BTW, like **Stoneburg** , I too live in a part of the world where science reigns supreme. It does so to such a degree that I have never personally met anyone who opposes science, or who believes that science should be stopped or held back in any way. Guess I’m lucky that way! 🙂

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**Author:** ![ebuc76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e99b99/32.png) [@ebuc76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ebuc76)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/65 "2015-11-24T15:19:53Z")

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1. "_U_"niverse is my most inclusive( wholistic ) terminology ergo;  
…1a _metaphysical-1( mind/intellect/concept )_

* * *

## …1b macro-infinite non-occupied space( embraces finite occupied space **Uni** Verse, …1c finite, occupied space **Uni** Verse.

1. _metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept_  
…ex concept of a God outside of finite Universe, holding Universe in its hands…  
…2a) absolutes truths–cosmic laws/principles, etc  
…2b) relative truths

* * *

3)\*\* Uni\*\*Verse = finite occupied space aka physical/energy  
…3a) fermions, **bosons** and any collective aggregate thereof  
…3b) gravity and dark energy odd-bird-out bosons  
Only rational logical common sense replies that address my cosmic outline, specifically as stated are welcome.

Crooked glue-sniffing dopers with their cruel intentions, who are lacking in respect, moral integrity, intellectual integrity, are not welcome.

Thx, ebuc

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**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/66 "2015-11-24T15:52:47Z")

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Do you have a simpler explanation for us stupid folk?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/67 "2015-11-24T15:55:58Z")

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> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> 1. "_U_"niverse is my most inclusive( wholistic ) terminology ergo;  
> …1a _metaphysical-1( mind/intellect/concept )_
> 
> * * *
> 
> ## …1b macro-infinite non-occupied space( embraces finite occupied space **Uni** Verse, …1c finite, occupied space **Uni** Verse.
> 
> 1. _metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept_  
> …ex concept of a God outside of finite Universe, holding Universe in its hands…  
> …2a) absolutes truths–cosmic laws/principles, etc  
> …2b) relative truths
> 
> * * *
> 
> 3)\*\* Uni\*\*Verse = finite occupied space aka physical/energy  
> …3a) fermions, **bosons** and any collective aggregate thereof  
> …3b) gravity and dark energy odd-bird-out bosons  
> Only rational logical common sense replies that address my cosmic outline, specifically as stated are welcome.
> 
> Crooked glue-sniffing dopers with their cruel intentions, who are lacking in respect, moral integrity, intellectual integrity, are not welcome.
> 
> Thx, ebuc

Could you please post a chart explaining the meanings of the colors used in your missives?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/68 "2015-11-24T15:56:01Z")

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> [@Steken](#):
>
> Do you have a simpler explanation for us stupid folk?

Same OP as his previous thread. Reported.

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**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/69 "2015-11-24T15:59:59Z")

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> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> Only rational logical common sense replies that address my cosmic outline, specifically as stated are welcome.
> 
> Crooked glue-sniffing dopers with their cruel intentions, who are lacking in respect, moral integrity, intellectual integrity, are not welcome.
> 
> Thx, ebuc

Two things.

1. Please don’t start multiple threads on the same topic, particularly since your original thread is only two days old and still going. I’ve merged the two threads.

2. You don’t get to dictate who can and can’t respond to your posts. If someone is violating board rules, you can report them for the violation. But you can’t tell anyone else how to post.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/70 "2015-11-24T16:18:10Z")

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> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> ## [SIZE=2]1) "_U_"niverse is my most inclusive( wholistic ) terminology ergo; …1a _metaphysical-1( mind/intellect/concept )_
> 
> ## …1b macro-infinite non-occupied space( embraces finite occupied space **Uni** Verse, …1c finite, occupied space **Uni** Verse.
> 
> 1. _metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept_  
> …ex concept of a God outside of finite Universe, holding Universe in its hands…  
> …2a) absolutes truths–cosmic laws/principles, etc  
> …2b) relative truths
> 
> * * *
> 
> 3)\*\* Uni\*\*Verse = finite occupied space aka physical/energy  
> …3a) fermions, **bosons** and any collective aggregate thereof  
> …3b) gravity and dark energy odd-bird-out bosons

You keep using these words but I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.

> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> Only rational logical common sense replies that address my cosmic outline, specifically as stated are welcome.

First, you must provide us with something “rational logical common sense” to which we can respond.

> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> Crooked glue-sniffing doperswith their cruel intentions, who are lacking in respect, moral integrity, intellectual integrity, are not welcome.

You reap what you sow.

> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> Thx, ebuc

The Emily Post School of Etiquette suggests that you not thank people in advance for things they have not yet done.

There, see? Now you can’t say you’ve not learned something new on SDMB.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/71 "2015-11-24T16:43:08Z")

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> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> 1. "_U_"niverse is my most inclusive( wholistic ) terminology ergo;  
> …1a _metaphysical-1( mind/intellect/concept )_
> 
> * * *
> 
> ## …1b macro-infinite non-occupied space( embraces finite occupied space **Uni** Verse, …1c finite, occupied space **Uni** Verse.
> 
> 1. _metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept_  
> …ex concept of a God outside of finite Universe, holding Universe in its hands…  
> …2a) absolutes truths–cosmic laws/principles, etc  
> …2b) relative truths
> 
> * * *
> 
> 3)\*\* Uni\*\*Verse = finite occupied space aka physical/energy  
> …3a) fermions, **bosons** and any collective aggregate thereof  
> …3b) gravity and dark energy odd-bird-out bosons  
> Only rational logical common sense replies that address my cosmic outline, specifically as stated are welcome.
> 
> Crooked glue-sniffing dopers with their cruel intentions, who are lacking in respect, moral integrity, intellectual integrity, are not welcome.
> 
> Thx, ebuc

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Can you put it into simpler concepts? When a bunch of people are telling you they don’t get it, even if some are doing so in a mocking way, isn’t it possible that you’re not communicating your point very well and ought to try a different way?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/72 "2015-11-24T18:00:26Z")

</div>

> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> 1. Universe is my most inclusive( wholistic ) terminology ergo;  
> …1a metaphysical-1( mind/intellect/concept )
> 
> * * *
> 
> ## …1b macro-infinite non-occupied space( embraces finite occupied space UniVerse, …1c finite, occupied space UniVerse.
> 
> 1. metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept  
> …ex concept of a God outside of finite Universe, holding Universe in its hands…  
> …2a) absolutes truths–cosmic laws/principles, etc  
> …2b) relative truths
> 
> * * *
> 
> 1. UniVerse = finite occupied space aka physical/energy  
> …3a) fermions, bosons and any collective aggregate thereof  
> …3b) gravity and dark energy odd-bird-out bosons  
> Only rational logical common sense replies that address my cosmic outline, specifically as stated are welcome.

I reject your cosmic outline as complete gibberish.

That is my rational logical common sense reply.

I’m sorry, but as many others have stated (and only one has _not_ stated, and he’s not helping), what you are saying makes _no_ sense. Nobody understands what you are saying. At a certain point, it is not reasonable to say that your audience is stupid, it is on _you_ to communicate your ideas reasonably.

What you does your cosmic framework _mean_? What does it imply? I have _no idea_. All you’ve done is define some terms; whether or not those definitions have any relation to reality depends entirely on the _argument_ they are then applied to. What you’re doing is entirely meaningless, and incomprehensible to boot.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/73 "2015-11-24T18:59:38Z")

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> [@ebuc76](#):
>
> 1. "_U_"niverse is my most inclusive( wholistic ) terminology ergo;  
> …1a _metaphysical-1( mind/intellect/concept )_
> 
> * * *
> 
> ## …1b macro-infinite non-occupied space( embraces finite occupied space **Uni** Verse, …1c finite, occupied space **Uni** Verse.
> 
> 1. _metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept_  
> …ex concept of a God outside of finite Universe, holding Universe in its hands…  
> …2a) absolutes truths–cosmic laws/principles, etc  
> …2b) relative truths
> 
> * * *
> 
> 3)\*\* Uni\*\*Verse = finite occupied space aka physical/energy  
> …3a) fermions, **bosons** and any collective aggregate thereof  
> …3b) gravity and dark energy odd-bird-out bosons  
> Only rational logical common sense replies that address my cosmic outline, specifically as stated are welcome.
> 
> Crooked glue-sniffing dopers with their cruel intentions, who are lacking in respect, moral integrity, intellectual integrity, are not welcome.
> 
> Thx, ebuc

You’re missing a " ) "

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/74 "2015-11-24T19:05:10Z")

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> [@Gedd](#):
>
> You’re missing a " ) "

It’s there. He colored it white.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/75 "2015-11-24T19:18:25Z")

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> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> …Even more scary, why couldn’t you have a universe with true emptiness, i.e., spacetime itself has no “properties?” Now, this would certainly take the blue ribbon for “uninteresting” universes, but is it “possible” in some extreme sense?

Without energy/mass and matter, this hardly leaves much for spacetime to display (i.e. gravity, dark matter, dark energy, light, zero-point energy, quantum foam, etc), since spacetime is affected and warped by the presence of matter and energy.

Although it’s hard to imagine the meaning of a Universe without _any_ property; therefore I can imagine a universe that is comprised of only spacetime, but that brings it practically to the point of absolute nothingness (except for the existence of a _there_ and a _then,_ for what that’s worth).

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/76 "2015-11-24T19:21:03Z")

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> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> it is on _you_ to communicate your ideas reasonably.

Now that he’s (theoretically) learned that he won’t be allowed to just create a string of these threads, I doubt he’ll be around much longer.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/77 "2015-11-24T19:27:29Z")

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> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#):
>
> Now that he’s (theoretically) learned that he won’t be allowed to just create a string of these threads, I doubt he’ll be around much longer.

You mean I can’t just keep repeating my non-sense without real clarification, and expect different responses?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/78 "2015-11-24T19:28:31Z")

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You mean I can’t just keep repeating my non-sense without real clarification, and expect different responses?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/79 "2015-11-24T19:30:39Z")

</div>

You mean I can’t just keep repeating my non-sense without real clarification, and expect different responses?.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmic-thinker/738282/80 "2015-11-24T19:50:52Z")

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> [@cmyk](#):
>
> You mean I can’t just keep repeating my non-sense without real clarification, and expect different responses?

> [@cmyk](#):
>
> You mean I can’t just keep repeating my non-sense without real clarification, and expect different responses?

> [@cmyk](#):
>
> You mean I can’t just keep repeating my non-sense without real clarification, and expect different responses?.

[Now cut that out!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q34logqQfEA)

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