# Cosmos: A Waste of Spacetime **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324 "2014-03-10T03:06:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/61 "2014-03-10T21:33:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > To be clear, Bruno’s fate did not arise because of his theories about there being countless stars that were just like the Sun and had planets with life – which, obviously, turned out to be correct, or very likely correct. > > His fate came about because he denied Jesus’ divinity, said that Satan would be saved, and that Jesus had been a skilfull magician. Oh, well, that’s a perfectly reasonable reason to publicly set him on fire. :rolleyes: I think its fair to say that if on the list of charges against him were the sciency things, that they in some part played a roll in his fate. Don’t you? Did the inquisition keep track of specific sentences for each of the counts against him, or did they just aggregate them into one, “Burn, muthafucka, burn”? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/62 "2014-03-10T22:07:44Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Oh, well, that’s a perfectly reasonable reason to publicly set him on fire. :rolleyes: **Bricker** never said it was, just that it wasn’t about his scientific teachings. And sadly, at that time, burning people at the stake for heresy (and other reasons) happened all over the place. I don’t think anyone’s condoning it, dude. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/63 "2014-03-10T22:22:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Bricker** never said it was, just that it wasn’t about his scientific teachings. And sadly, at that time, burning people at the stake for heresy (and other reasons) happened all over the place. I don’t think anyone’s condoning it, dude. I think Bruno’s a horrible example anyway. As Tyson mentioned at the end, his ideas were explicitly _non-sciencific_. He happened to be (sort of) right, but he really had no evidence for his claims. He was essentially making a theological argument that turned out to have some astronomical truth in them. Why not look at a real scientist who was persecuted for their evidence-based beliefs? I can point to thousands of people burned at the stake for holding the wrong religious beliefs. Overall, I enjoyed the show, and I look forward to seeing the rest of the episodes. Incidently, Tyson [talked a little bit](http://www.space.com/24918-cosmos-tv-series-fox-video.html) about why they’re putting it on FOX. I liked the quote (in response to FOX having a bit of an anti-science reputation): “The only thing that they were concerned about was — Was anybody inhaling on the show? And whether or not there was any frontal nudity” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/64 "2014-03-10T22:22:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Bricker** never said it was, just that it wasn’t about his scientific teachings. And sadly, at that time, burning people at the stake for heresy (and other reasons) happened all over the place. I don’t think anyone’s condoning it, dude. I took what he said as defending the church, since you know it didn’t burn him for his cosmological heresy, it burned him because he thought Jesus was magic. Which sounded kinda funny, which is why I posted. To be clear, I’m sure Bricker isn’t a fan of burning heretics. Which may be the nicest thing I’ve ever said about him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/65 "2014-03-10T23:22:06Z")
Gotta agree about the commercials. They just destroyed ANY semblance of continuity! And get this, the last book I read had CHAPTERS! And the last album I listened to had SONGS! Talk about dumbing things down… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/66 "2014-03-10T23:57:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I took what he said as defending the church, since you know it didn’t burn him for his cosmological heresy, it burned him because he thought Jesus was magic. It sounds more like they burned him for not thinking Jesus was magic enough. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/67 "2014-03-11T00:02:48Z")
Maybe it’s just because I’m older than most of you guys, because I was well into my 20s when I watched the original _Cosmos_ and… it was good, but not that good. Granted, I think Sagan is a different league as a host than Tyson, but I can remember cringing more than once watching the original when they oversimplified or didn’t get something quite right. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/68 "2014-03-11T00:07:25Z")
Well, while I didn’t care for the commercials this pilot was a heck of a lot better than the pilot of the original Cosmos, which had Sagan blabbing about the journey than actually showing anything for half the show. This was very well done, and I think Tyson is perfect for the role. My opinion and I will not apologize for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/69 "2014-03-11T00:08:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It sounds more like they burned him for not thinking Jesus was magic enough. I think the church was all, “Jesus is totally like Eru Ilúvatar” and Brouno was all, “No way, Jesus isa likea de Gandalf!” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/70 "2014-03-11T00:23:43Z")
I liked the show. I would have preferred less flying around in the standup spacecraft. The 365 day calendar analogy was interesting. Didn’t need Bruno’s cartoon. However… describing The Big Bang as an explosion? Eh, you know, as long as people are cool with the word Bang in it’s name, I won’t get too hung up on the explosion metaphor. All in all, not bad, better than most crap on antenna tv on Sunday night. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/71 "2014-03-11T03:08:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Bricker** never said it was, just that it wasn’t about his scientific teachings. And sadly, at that time, burning people at the stake for heresy (and other reasons) happened all over the place. I don’t think anyone’s condoning it, dude. Speak for yourself! When I hear fundamentalists talk crazy I get nostalgic for the good ol’ days when we could just kill them. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > To be fair to your 13 year old, the church really were “jerks” through most of history. Not that any other contemporary organizations looked much better. It was one of those teachable moments we’re told we should take advantage of. > [@ambushed](#): > > Another minor nit: Was copying Boba Fett’s spacecraft design really the best they could come up with? I liked how Brannon Braga gave Tyson the helm on the Enterprise bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/72 "2014-03-11T05:57:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Maybe it’s just because I’m older than most of you guys, because I was well into my 20s when I watched the original _Cosmos_ and… it was good, but not that good. Granted, I think Sagan is a different league as a host than Tyson, but I can remember cringing more than once watching the original when they oversimplified or didn’t get something quite right. Agreed. When I saw the original one, it seemed like Sagan would gape at not very good special effects for hours. If you’ve ever seen “Real Genius” the villain, their adviser, had a show called “Everything” and was modeled at least a bit on Sagan. Great guy, but got a swelled head. Here we have less of NDT and more of much better illustrations. I’m looking forward the the rest of the episodes. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/73 "2014-03-11T06:51:31Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > I was privileged to view a sneak preview of the first episode, with no ads. It didn’t seem choppy to me. NDT seems well-suited to these educational videos. In the Q&A he was witty and captivating. Here’s a video: [http://youtu.be/bB2le-geCoU](http://youtu.be/bB2le-geCoU) (best answer to which is the most romantic phenomenon) Oh, the best part of the talk was his response to, with such advanced technology, why don’t we have huge advancements in science. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/74 "2014-03-11T11:14:05Z")
I quite enjoyed the show–will watch as it goes into further detail. Yes, there are commercials–I’m not watching to have a religious experience. The Bruno segment informed us that the Calvinists, Lutherans & Anglicans also rejected his beliefs. Alas, he decided to return to Rome. None of the major denominations are now anti-science. Perhaps the minds of a few Biblical Inerrancy fans will get expanded… ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Merton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Frank\_Merton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_Merton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/75 "2014-03-11T11:22:33Z")
What I’ve seen of the show struck me as gee-whiz unscientific commercialism. What’s with the lightning tour of the solar system? Does anyone actually learn anything or is it just graphics to impress children and morons? One strong objection: as with most depictions of the big bang, they show some sort of explosion, sound effects and all. This is unbelievably misleading. Space time began and began expanding. There was nothing “outside” it to view it from. It was not an explosion. It would if you could be in it and somehow survive, be just a simple expansion of subatomic particles and later bits of matter. Why do they have to persist in showing something so completely wrong and, worse, completely misleading. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/76 "2014-03-11T12:32:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Also, and this is really nitpicky, but when he was tied to the stake and they thrust the crucifix in his face, he turned aside which I thought was lame and undercut the idea that you could be religious and scientific. Actually, that part was accurate. He wasn’t burned at the stake for his views of the Universe except that they became and form of Pantheism which went hand-in-hand with his denial of basics of the Christian faith and he and did indeed turn from the Crucifix during his execution. As a thoroughly orthodox Nicene Christians, even I can lament the dickishness of Church authorities through the ages. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Merton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Frank\_Merton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_Merton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/77 "2014-03-11T13:01:59Z")
Well I kinda wondered why they picked Bruno: he was a fanatic who based his beliefs on a vision, not on any kind of scientific reasoning (unless you think Lucretius is scientific, which he is in a sort of poetic way – the universe must be infinite or we would all have reached bottom by now). Men like Galileo and Newton and Copernicus should get the attention, as they were the path setters. Two theories: one was to get a dig in at the Church and its Medieval brutality (which it deserves); the other was that Sagan had already used up the really good figures and they wanted someone different. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/78 "2014-03-11T13:59:00Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It was a deliberate decision by the makers of the new _Cosmos_ (McFarland, Tyson, Druyan, et al.) to put the series on a commercial channel rather than PBS. There are too many people who simply won’t watch PBS no matter what. This way they get people watching it who ordinarily don’t see science series… > [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > Seriously shut up about the commercials. It’s a broadcast channel that’s not PBS. You sound like someone who has never watched TV before. “OMG the commercial television watching is so terrible because commercials!” Really a stupid thing to complain about. I don’t hear anything different in NGT’s delivery than when he does NOVA ScienceNOW. > > Perhaps, just maybe, the delivery has to do with modern sound-bite audiences who are constantly multi-tasking, and whose attention is difficult to keep. They’re not trying to hold _your_ attention, they’re trying to hold the attention of the Fox Network Sunday evening demographic, who have their phones, laptops, and tablets going at the same time as the show. The modern viewing audience is _a whole world (dare I say universe?) different_ than it was when Sagan’s series aired. Of course there’s no room for contemplation and long explanations, good grief! Talk about a sure way to make people change the channel! > > As to the rest of your complaints, carry on. > [@Antigen](#): > > … Yes, the ads are annoying. But putting it on PBS would have kept the audience so much smaller. There are already tons of wonderful programs on PBS that cover these topics - Cosmos is supposed to get people interested enough to maybe consider changing channels once in a while. > [@Moe](#): > > … I’m accepting of the fact that many of the aforementioned shortcomings (which I agree with) are actually to its benefit in terms of what good it can do culturally. (the commercials, being on FOX instead of PBS, the sorta sound-bite chaptering…)… I understand and acknowledge these points about what, to be as generous as I can bring myself to be, I would describe as the “necessary evil” of showing it on network prime-time TV, but mostly because Druyan, et. al., had been shopping it around for years and found no takers until MacFarlane pushed it to the Fox people. If you insist that Druyan deliberately and explicitly decided against airing it on PBS, I’ll tentatively take your word for it, but I retain some doubts (or at least major disappointment). PBS in general, and _Nova_ in particular, is in \*\*\*desperate \*\*\*need of a rebirth, because it hasn’t produced a science show in years – it’s little more than another unimpressive technology showcase – and a new \*Cosmos \*would have done just that! Sure, not many people watch PBS, but that’s hardly new, even if shows like _Frontline_ are the very finest out there. More to the point, developing and airing a new _Cosmos_ would have brought PBS multitudes of \*\*new \*\*viewers, re-invigorating the most pro-science and objective information source this country has to offer! I personally feel that Ann Druyan should feel at least a _little_ shame. As for the repeated argument here that airing it on Fox (or the National Geographic channel, which has sunk so abysmally low to the tragic point that it’s just another vehemently anti-science, pro-crackpot clone of the gob-smackingly \*\*\*putrid \*\*\*Discovery / TLC / ID / Science / History Channels, where nothing gets on the air unless it is filled with complete and utter lies and/or anti-scientific **bullshit** ) will interest and intrigue a lot of people to pay attention and actually lead them to try to learn some science, I’m just not buying it (at least not for more than a very few). Why not? The same reason I posited above: The fact that they had to break off interest and concentration and narrative flow to make room for all the commercials! Please understand: With this I’m **not** seeking to bash consumerism or free enterprise or network TV or make other similar social-political criticisms. My great concern is that the _content_ of the show has been chopped into such small, disjointed bits that it becomes blurred with the commercials themselves; requires too much effort to distinguish from the rest of the noise; severely damages comprehension; stops contemplation cold; decimates any narrative (and narrative hooks); turns it into yet another disjointed pile of immediately forgotten mainstream pablum; and again just slides along with the rest of the rabid anti-intellectualism of our time. Curiously, **SeaDragonTattoo** acknowledges this tragic state of affairs even as he criticizes my arguments and tells me to shut up about it. He/she describes _“modern sound-bite audiences who are constantly multi-tasking, and whose attention is difficult to keep”_, who _“have their phones, laptops, and tablets going at the same time as the show”_. Yep, that’s our modern anti-intellectual cultural catastrophe, all right. _ **So why surrender to it? Why reinforce it?** _ Even with its far larger viewership compared to PBS, network TV with commercials over the last decade (or arguably several decades now) hasn’t measurably educated and enlightened very many people at all (and has probably made things considerably worse), especially compared to long-segment TV without commercials (PBS and all the streaming options), and I think it’s quite unlikely (perhaps even ludicrous) to think things will be any different with the new _Cosmos_ chopped up and spewed out this way. Network, commercial-laden TV has the same effect on me, too: A commercial comes on and I quickly forget what was going on in the narrative and start thinking about dozens of unrelated things. My concentration has been damaged by it, if not demolished. It’s the worst way _imaginable_ to communicate! I need to go now, but before I go, I’d like to point out that none of the posters I’ve quoted above has made any comment on a key point I raised above in response to **MsRobyn** : _ **“And it’s not all that uncommon for the major traditional networks to air some programs with little or no commercial interruptions, so there’s really not much excuse for butchering it so.”** _ Bye for now… ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/79 "2014-03-11T16:18:36Z")
> [@Frank\_Merton](#): > > Well I kinda wondered why they picked Bruno: he was a fanatic who based his beliefs on a vision, not on any kind of scientific reasoning (unless you think Lucretius is scientific, which he is in a sort of poetic way – the universe must be infinite or we would all have reached bottom by now). Men like Galileo and Newton and Copernicus should get the attention, as they were the path setters. > > Two theories: one was to get a dig in at the Church and its Medieval brutality (which it deserves); the other was that Sagan had already used up the really good figures and they wanted someone different. From this [interview](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-sagers/ann-druyan-on-returning-t_b_4921803.html), it sounds like Bruno was someone they wanted to talk about in the original, but never got to it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324/80 "2014-03-11T17:19:53Z")
> [@Frank\_Merton](#): > > What I’ve seen of the show struck me as gee-whiz unscientific commercialism. What’s with the lightning tour of the solar system? Does anyone actually learn anything or is it just graphics to impress children and morons? > > One strong objection: as with most depictions of the big bang, they show some sort of explosion, sound effects and all. This is unbelievably misleading. Space time began and began expanding. There was nothing “outside” it to view it from. It was not an explosion. It would if you could be in it and somehow survive, be just a simple expansion of subatomic particles and later bits of matter. > > Why do they have to persist in showing something so completely wrong and, worse, completely misleading. And there is no such thing as a cosmic calendar you can step from to the present or the Big Bang, and no spaceship can make it to the local cluster in under a minute. Yeah, let’s make it really popular by just showing the equations. Hell, they talked about the opaque phase, which is pretty uncommon in short summaries of the early universe. Though they didn’t talk about inflation - yet. How would you propose to show this in a way which will get people interested enough to check further? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosmos-a-waste-of-spacetime/683324.md?page=5)