# "Cosplay is hurting comic book conventions" - What's the reasoning behind this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 8, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632 "2014-12-08T04:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/41 "2014-12-09T01:35:09Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Some people may be ignoring the comic creators, but doesn’t the foot traffic increase from the popularity of cosplayers lift the industry overall? If someone takes the time and money to make a costume, aren’t they more likely to pick up a book than someone who doesn’t have an interest at all? This would be my guess. The prevalence and size of geek-focused conventions has almost certainly grown over the last decade or two. As a percentage of all traffic, the number of people focused on the hard-core buying and selling of goods has probably shrunk horribly. But at the same time, the total numbers have probably grown and in part thanks to the attention that cosplayers bring and to the take-up of the hobby by non-dweebs who have more than one thing to devote their life to but who are in it for the fun, not the hard-core numbers they can list about themselves (“I have FIVE copies of the FIRST printing of Ultra-Raptors Bikini Edition!”). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/42 "2014-12-09T02:16:54Z")
More toys than comics, but my daughters have cosplayed at My Little Pony cons and one went to a Furby con, or something that sounded like Furby, and now wants to make a Furby costume. I never thought there was enough about those creepy toys to support a con, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/43 "2014-12-09T02:35:24Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > As someone still bummed out about the near-complete displacement of books from sci-fi conventions in lieu of “media” like movies and televised science fiction all I have to add is: > > HA-HA! > > Sorry, but (neener-neener) not really filled with much compassion here for the anti-cosplayers. 😛 no. No. NO! It’s [YA-YA!](http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Yaya+Han&FORM=RESTAB) ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/44 "2014-12-09T08:06:36Z")
I’m not a con goer, a comic book fanatic or against hot girls but I might see making a case against Cosplay in Phoenix. I work with many people who attend the cons. A couple of coworkers ( one a cosplayer and one not, the cosplayer is a girl )talking about the con and the non cosplayer said he was not taking his kids this year because he didn’t want to take them to a strip club. The girl kinda agreed that things were out of control on that front. So, we know that comic books used to be for kids and the sales were booming. Now, the industry is in a financial downspin and it seems that more and more adults are making this a non kid friendly hobby ( again one town as a data point but the comments in this thread seem to concur with this ) and obviously these adults aren’t buying the books so exactly why should a comic creator be pleased by a bunch of people not helping the industry they love so much and chasing away what were the paying customers? The booming popularity of the cons hasn’t saved the industry financially. You need people buying comics to do that. You need “I have FIVE copies of the FIRST printing of Ultra-Raptors Bikini Edition!” more than “I had a great weekend playing dress up but I didn’t buy any comics. Did you see what my outfit cost”? People are right though. If the comic makers want to survive they need to adapt. They will need to find a way to actually sell the product they are making to an aging, non spending market. I predict comics are going to be made strictly to fuel movies which is where the adult money is. That’s already happening. Then, as all the people who loved comics as kids die off the market for new movies is going to dwindle because movie genres don’t stay cool forever. When was the last beach movie put out again. They used to be super popular? I could see how you could be bitter if your new “fans” spend less on your product than the well paying fans you are losing and their answer to you is “deal with it.” You do have to deal with it as you need some fans but really, to think that comic creators should do it for the hobby and the love of the craft is some mighty hypocritical bs. They do this for a living. Of course they’re going to grouse if they see their money stream dry up. Why on Earth ( or any planet for that matter ) wouldn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/45 "2014-12-09T13:48:44Z")
As someone who has been attending cons for over 35 years and has helped run more than a few (including WorldCons) things _have_ changed over the years, but I’m certainly not going to blame the Cosplayers. Back in the late '70’s/early '80’s there were multiple “types” of conventions. There were science fiction conventions, comic book conventions, gaming conventions, _Star Trek_ conventions and such but not a lot of overlap. Sure, you had people who would go to more than one convention but you wouldn’t expect to find a lot of comics at a science fiction convention for example. Things started changing in the early '80’s, primarily due to the influence of _Star Wars_ (and to a lesser extent _D&D_). _Star Trek_ notwithstanding, _Star Wars_ was when “science fiction” first broke back into pop culture. (_Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon_ may have held that position at one time but they had certainly fallen out of the pop culture gestalt by then.) Suddenly _Star Wars_ and other media-related programming and paraphernalia started showing up at conventions and dealers rooms. There was a _huge_ backlash at the time. Many people resented the “medians” intruding on their conventions and the “readers” looked down on them. I remember going to at least one “Reader Con” where media/comic fans were specifically not invited. (Come to think of it, the _Star Wars_ fans may have started the Cosplay trend as well. I know there had been costume contests at cons before but I think the _Star Wars_ costumers were among the first ones to really start the meticulously-detailed and accurate-as-possible costumes we see now.) After a while things started merging together. Game rooms started getting bigger and bigger. Comic book programming started appearing at science fiction cons and _Star Wars_ costumes at comic conventions. Eventually the distinctions between types of cons disappeared for the most part. Are there more cosplayers now? Sure. But conventions are much bigger now in general too. I remember going to cons with a total attendance of 70-80 people. There were WorldCons with maybe 5,000 attendees. The most recent con I went to (DragonCon) had over 40,000. As for people not buying anything, I can think of a lot of reasons for that that _don’t_ involve cosplayers. When I first started going to cons the dealer’s room was a big deal because it was abot the only place I could find things that I was looking for. Yeah, my local bookstore had a small science fiction section, but if I wanted something old or out of print or “geeky” shirts/posters/toys/props/what-have-you about the only place I could find them was at a convention. I remember going to cons with an empty suitcase just to have some place to bring back the books and things I bought. Now if I want something I just click on Amazon, eBay, ThinkGeek or any of dozens of specialty websites and have it delivered directly to my door. I don’t need to worry about searching a dealer’s room for that one volume i’m missing or worry about a lightsaber prop being broken in my luggage. One click and done. Which means I can spend more time at a convention seeing the programming or socializing with other fans than searching through the dealer’s room. Have conventions changed? Certainly. Has business in the dealer’s room fallen off? Probably. Is it the cosplayers fault? Almost certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/46 "2014-12-09T13:58:13Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > Have conventions changed? Certainly. Has business in the dealer’s room fallen off? Probably. Is it the cosplayers fault? Almost certainly not. Like, Plus, Star, Thumbs Up. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/47 "2014-12-09T20:42:22Z")
My perspective is much like what Tanstaafl posted. > [@](#): > > from Bleeding Cool… Conventions are no longer shows about commerce, product launches, and celebrating the people who created this genre in the first place. What a fascinating statement you’ve quoted. Product launches? I don’t, by any means, consider myself a major Comic fan or Con attendee, but I do clearly remember that, back when the San Diego ComiCon had newly graduated from the basement of a downtown hotel to a municipal conference hall (Golden Hall), the primary intent of the Con seemed to be about vendors gathering to sell accessories and back-issue reprints so fans could complete their collections. It wasn’t about product-releases and hype and costuming. The focus was on vendors and products, a few scheduled role-playing games, a contest/auction of fan-made art, and a few creative types signing autographs (of stuff the fan/attendee brought to the table, whether it was a hat or a ticket stub or, preferably, a poster or issue of the signer’s published work). And, to be blunt about it, the authors and artists weren’t doing the gig just to get in the Con for free (and in the earliest days they might have had to pay anyway) but they participated because it helped sell more of their product, either on-the-spot or later when the fan’s improved interest encouraged more spending at their local comic book store. Nobody in Hollywood could be bothered to drive three hours south to show up, and the guys dressed up as Klingons or warrior types were pretty much laughed at by the rest of the attendees – clearly those weirdos were just trying to get away with wearing leather and carrying pseudo-weapons in public; nobody thought they looked like any particular character or archetype (which is why my 6’8" 385lb friend thought it was perfectly reasonable to dress in green spandex and say, “I’m an elf!”). Sure, there was a costume contest and even a costume ball scheduled – shoehorned in around midnight because it wasn’t that popular or important. And the pre-convention advertising booklet hinted about certain authors or artists who were planning to show up at the next Con – as attendees, not guest speakers. Somebody with connections would get copies of old movies (Poltergeist or Bakshi’s Wizards) to show several times over a couple nights. But, of course, things changed – particularly when Hollywood realized it could sell old products and pre-sell upcoming products through the Cons. It wasn’t until after the ComiCon moved to the newly opened purpose-built Convention Center on the waterside that artists and authors were booked in rooms and time-slots for direct Q&A sessions and TV show companies would stop by to talk about the latest location-based shows being filmed around San Diego county. And a few animated short films were offered for exclusive viewings. And later some actors from some Sci-Fi or Fantasy or Comic/Anime movies/cartoons would come down and sit at a special autograph table. And while the story lines for Comic Books and animation had their roots in a lot of genres, Horror, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy are particularly popular mainly because it’s possible to draw some things that live actors can’t or won’t do. The line between the conventions for, say, Star Trek or Role-Playing Games quickly became blurred and the ComiCon was perceived more and more as another appearance gig for the actors as well as the creators & producers and the merchandisers & vendors. Hollywood took notice because the fans were flocking to specific locations on certain dates with tons of cash and zillions of credit cards. It was clear that by previewing scenes from _Alien versus Predator_ at the Con in July, the first week of ticket sales were better for the full film at the theaters in September. Now Hollywood considers The Con to be a routine pre-marketing (Hype) venue and The Con organizers see Hollywood previews as a way to draw bigger crowds and the fans see the Cons as a way to get previews of their favorite stuff. It’s a win-win-win situation. Ultimately, I suspect the real decision-making is between the organizing committees and the venue management. If a certain facet of the con is growing in popularity amongst attendees, then facilitating those facets is just good business – greater profits from higher admissions. > [@](#): > > from Eonwe… > I find this interesting. On the one hand, power to the people. On the other hand, if industry people are truly becoming an afterthought for most attendees, then I can see that this shift might be bad for, you know, the actual people who make comics. On the other hand, maybe the way to deal with it is to embrace the change and make it work for you, like the person quoted in the OP (ie, stop complaining about kids these days, and figure out how to thrive in the new paradigm). Easy enough to do: Create a two-issue spectacular character with a unique and copyrighted costume. Have a designer make the costume. Have an actor wear it to the Con and sign autographs. Issue A with the character comes out before the Con and a half-page add is included to say “Meet XYZ at KidCon next month!”; issue B with the character comes out to be sold only at the Con – autographs cost extra. Have a merchandiser selling authentic costumes (and accessories). The creative guy’s copyright ensures he gets a cut of the profits from Issue A, Issue B, the signature, and the costume merchandise. –G! \*There’s a Celebrities You’ve Met thread around here somewhere in which I mention meeting Raymond E. Feist at a Con; he was just there to check out the goods and pick up some Sci-Fi books. I happened to bump into him just before he walked out the door. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/48 "2014-12-09T21:39:16Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > It certainly doesn’t leave a GOOD impression of comic nerds when more mainstream news sources (or people like Conan O’Brien) send someone out to the con and gets a bunch footage of “weirdos” (how they view them) playing dress up (and lets be honest, that’s what “cosplay” is) to make fun of. Maybe they feel that’s how it’s hurting them, by the way outsiders look at things. Is this somehow worse than the media ignoring the con entirely? Or showing up and just making fun of nerdy nerds doing nerd things? I find I have perilously little sympathy with this view. ---
**Author:** ![Iggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Iggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggins)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/49 "2014-12-09T22:50:40Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > More toys than comics, but my daughters have cosplayed at My Little Pony cons and one went to a Furby con, or something that sounded like Furby, and now wants to make a Furby costume. I never thought there was enough about those creepy toys to support a con, but whatever. Did they mean, “[Furry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom)”? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/50 "2014-12-10T03:53:21Z")
Maybe. I wasn’t really paying attention. 😉 She didn’t tell us where she was going until she got home from it because she thought her mom and I would laugh at her. She was right, but as a cosplayer she mostly went to laugh at the Furries. There’s a whole ecology of trickle-down derision. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/51 "2014-12-10T03:58:42Z")
Just FYI, but right now isn’t the best time for jokes about mocking furries. Some asshole went to the Furry-con this past weekend, and set off a chlorine bomb that hurt 19 and required the entire hotel to be evacuated and ventilated. Unfortunately, nearly all of the supposedly adult newscasters felt that joking about the ‘weird cosplayers’ and ‘freaks’ on live tv or in news articles was more important than accurate coverage of a chemical weapon attack. Kink or not, weird or not, no one should feel like they have free reign to terrorize or hurt people based on a hobby. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/52 "2014-12-10T04:06:32Z")
Well, I agree that “no one should feel like they have free reign to terrorize or hurt people based on a hobby.” Especially one as harmless as that. She didn’t mention it, I didn’t know about it, but I’m not apologizing for what I said because it was “too soon.” “Too Soon” is my middle name. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/53 "2014-12-10T04:10:08Z")
No worries, and they may have been at a different con. I just wanted the info about the attack to be an explicit part of the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/54 "2014-12-10T04:59:08Z")
Nope, same con. In her update from the convention floor the day after, daughter said, “They say 19 were sent to the hospital, but 11 had just drunk too much.” And I’m not sure if it was anything like a hate crime. Some people are just jerks getting their unthinking yucks. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/55 "2014-12-10T05:51:17Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Just FYI, but right now isn’t the best time for jokes about mocking furries. Some asshole went to the Furry-con this past weekend, and set off a chlorine bomb that hurt 19 and required the entire hotel to be evacuated and ventilated. > > Unfortunately, nearly all of the supposedly adult newscasters felt that joking about the ‘weird cosplayers’ and ‘freaks’ on live tv or in news articles was more important than accurate coverage of a chemical weapon attack. > > Kink or not, weird or not, no one should feel like they have free reign to terrorize or hurt people based on a hobby. I agree, making furry jokes now is pretty yiffy. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/56 "2014-12-10T08:09:18Z")
_sigh_ [xkcd says it all](http://xkcd.com/471/) ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/57 "2014-12-10T08:11:21Z")
I always thought people complained that it was the movie industry that was hurting comic-cons by taking the focus away from comic books? I think cosplay is pretty cool. Fans get to dress up as their favorite comic book/anime/film characters. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/58 "2014-12-10T14:57:06Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I agree, making furry jokes now is pretty yiffy. _Golf clap_ ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/59 "2014-12-10T15:46:28Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > I always thought people complained that it was the movie industry that was hurting comic-cons by taking the focus away from comic books? The comics industry itself is basically moribund; both DC and Marvel are run as with an eye to using their IP for the movie industry. So it’s a bit odd to complain that the movie industry is taking the focus away from comic books, when the comic books are focused on the movie industry. But I suppose being reminded of that is a bit of a sting to someone deeply invested into comics. ---
**Author:** ![Tuxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Tuxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuxie)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632/60 "2014-12-10T17:57:08Z")
Slightly off-topic, but comments about cosplayers and furries reminded me of something: I heard anecdotes about a proportionally high amount of convicted sex offenders happened to be Trekkies. Similarly, several people who spent time in prison noted that all the D&D groups consisted of prisoners who were sex offenders. Now I am not saying all the people into Star Trek and D&D are child molesters per se , but it also can’t be coincidental either. Maybe it is just easier to groom children if you happen to have a hobby that appeals to them? It doesn’t make you a child molester, just a potentially more effective one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cosplay-is-hurting-comic-book-conventions-whats-the-reasoning-behind-this/706632.md?page=4)