# Could A European Dictator Like Hitler Emerge? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240 "2015-07-15T16:09:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/21 "2015-07-15T23:09:03Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Hitler rose to absolute power because he had a home-grown army of a million guys behind him. > > I don’t see anybody being able to accomplish anything similar anytime soon. There is no obvious reason Vladimir Putin could not do so. He has managed to circumvent the democratic process to become de facto dictator and commands a country with the resources to fight a general war against many of its neighbors. His foreign policy is aggressive, to say the least, and it is plausible that he could have Russia do something that would trigger general war. As XT points out, he wouldn’t be Hitler, he’d be, well, Putin. But in the general sense of being a European tyrant who starts a war that kills millions of people, he absolutely could be that guy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/22 "2015-07-16T01:03:00Z")
I think it’s possible. Maintaining a democracy is hard work and requires people to admit their problems are their own responsibility. There will always be a temptation to listen to somebody who’s saying it’s somebody else’s fault and they will fix everything for you if you just give them the power to do it. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/23 "2015-07-16T14:04:20Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > No. As I see it, two fundamental things have changed since then. > For one: We have a globalized economy. Countries very much depend on each other economically. If a country really decided to go down the same path that the third reich did, it would become a pariah state. Funny you should say that. Many used a similar economic argument (not exact but similar) to state that WWI couldn’t happen 100 years ago. From “The Great Illusion” “The powerful bonds of commercial interest between ourselves and Germany, have immensely strengthened in recent years … removing Germany from the list of our possible foes.” > [@Hiker](#): > > NB: Putin is not Hitler. He is not giving us much reason to like him, but comparing him to that mad mass murderer is a tad unfair. A tad perhaps. But I don’t see the comparison as all that much of a stretch. Certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/24 "2015-07-16T14:53:22Z")
Within the EU, the only Great Power to have economic and military power is the UK. I guess a Hitler type _could_ come from there, but the UK is as liberal a democracy as exists in the EU at present. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/25 "2015-07-17T08:32:40Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > While this is true of many current movement, the whole mess in former Yugoslavia was much closer to your 1930 statements than the 2015 statements. That was only 20 years ago. Those sentiments exist in the population (some populations, anyway) even if they’re not currently the foundation of a party. > > Also keep in mind that the Nazis were always anti-Semitic, but they didn’t run on a platform of gas chambers. Mostly they ran on a strong economy/strong military/national pride platform. That platform would still get you traction in many places. (It’s working for Trump. :smack: ) This gets to the intentionalist vs. functionalist debate. But in general during the 1920s through the early years of the Third Reich, the Nazis were - at least publicly - closer to the “2015 right” in their public rhetoric than the “1930 right.” Initially, they seemed to largely aim to exclude, segregate, and ultimately deport the Jewish population. The Nazis moved toward genocide over a period of several years. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/26 "2015-07-17T09:13:22Z")
Hitler’s big argument was the horrendous terms of the WWI Treaty of Versailles, which destroyed the German economy. The current conditions on Greece are being compared to those terms. Luckily, Greece cannot manufacture much in the line of heavy weapons. The radical Left Spanish party is taking a page from Tsipras’ book in demands for debt relief. If they push as hard as the Greeks did, and get the same terms the Greeks got, there could be enough resentment for a dictator to emerge. As long as the major powers are fat and happy, a troublesome dictator is unlikely. Historically, big European wars start between France and Germany. It may or may not be of note that France is Catholic and Germany is Protestant. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/27 "2015-07-18T03:32:31Z")
What’s your timeframe? Next twenty years? One the one hand, I think the institutions are well-prepared to stop that particular bit of nonsense. Then I look at Greece, and I think, somewhere there’s a banker who wants to sabotage Syriza and put Golden Dawn in power, just like what great-granddad used to do. So, someone a little like Hitler, maybe a Franco, sure. Will he get as far? Probably not in our lifetimes. But someday! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/28 "2015-07-18T05:07:21Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So, someone a little like Hitler, maybe a Franco, sure. Will he get as far? Probably not in our lifetimes. There’s also the nuclear factor now. Nuclear weapons set a cap on how far you can conquer. Hitler never would have been able to invade France and the Soviet Union the way he did if they had had the option of nuking Berlin. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/29 "2015-07-18T05:21:26Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Within the EU, the only Great Power to have economic and military power is the UK. I guess a Hitler type _could_ come from there, but the UK is as liberal a democracy as exists in the EU at present. GDP: Germany = $3.73 trillion France = $2.806 trillion UK = $2.678 trillion Active Military Personnel: France = 215,019 Germany = 180,218 UK = 156,940 Not that I expect a dictator to come from any of them, but let’s not exaggerate the length of the UK’s shadow. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/30 "2015-07-18T06:27:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As XT points out, he wouldn’t be Hitler, he’d be, well, Putin. But in the general sense of being a European tyrant who starts a war that kills millions of people, he absolutely could be that guy. And Putin has already picked out his scapegoats to blame: gays & lesbians. For one example, his laws against ‘Homosexual Propaganda’ (which make it a crime to say good things about GLBT people, or even scientific facts about GLBT people, or to challenge lies told about them) would have fit right in with Hitler’s Nuremberg Laws. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/31 "2015-07-18T06:39:21Z")
I think the Crimea model has proven to be the anti-Hitler model of invading and conquering. Annex slowly, gradually, bit by bit, and each time concocting a pretext of supporting rebels or some fake democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/32 "2015-07-18T08:30:32Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > As long as the major powers are fat and happy, a troublesome dictator is unlikely. > Historically, big European wars start between France and Germany. > It may or may not be of note that France is Catholic and Germany is Protestant. Religion has never played a big part in the wars between France and Germany. Besides: 29,9 percent of Germans today are Roman Catholic. 28,5 percent are Protestants (belonging to the Evangelical Church of Germany). There are other Christian denominations, mostly Orthodox, none of which accounts for more than 1 percent of the population. I think it is safe ro rule out religious differences between France and Germany as a probable cause for the next big Europen war. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/33 "2015-07-18T09:24:39Z")
Maybe if a psychiatrist were to become President of Europe? Psychiatry has done a pretty good job at convincing much of the population that their “woes” are a sickness. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/34 "2015-07-18T09:47:55Z")
Another hitler is impossible. Another dictator as bad as hitler but from a completely different angle? Maybe. But as likely to be texan as european. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/35 "2015-07-18T14:10:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think the Crimea model has proven to be the anti-Hitler model of invading and conquering. Annex slowly, gradually, bit by bit, and each time concocting a pretext of supporting rebels or some fake democracy. How is that the anti-Hitler model? Hitler used the same pretext in his early invasions. He claimed, for example, that the Czechs were oppressing the ethnic Germans living in their country and said he was invading Czechoslovakia to protect them. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/36 "2015-07-18T18:06:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How is that the anti-Hitler model? Hitler used the same pretext in his early invasions. He claimed, for example, that the Czechs were oppressing the ethnic Germans living in their country and said he was invading Czechoslovakia to protect them. Pretty much exactly what Hitler did until Poland…and even there he didn’t think anyone would push back because no one had called him on it to that point. Heck, he even got the Soviets to help him out there. I’m not sure how anyone can look at what Putin et al are doing and NOT see the similarities. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/37 "2015-07-18T19:03:22Z")
You’re fighting the last dictator. The next dictator is not going to be like the charismatic ones from the 20th century; in the same way that the ones from the 20th century were not like those from previous periods. I expect the 21st cent. dictator to be an anonymous committee of nameless bureaucrats. Perhaps they’re already in place somewhere in the EU system. Certainly what little democracy we’ve ever had has been systematically undermined and unravelled. Through the dubious democratic setup of EU institutions, through a Byzantine web of international agreements and conventions presided over by unelected bureaucrats and self-appointed judges (of for instance the European Human Rights Court) usurping the power of the citizens. The system has very successfully spread the message that there is no alternative (as per Fukuyama’s End of History), and perhaps they’re even right. Doesn’t make it any less of a tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/38 "2015-07-18T19:15:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Hitler’s big argument was the horrendous terms of the WWI Treaty of Versailles, which destroyed the German economy. That’s what I was taught in high school, but lately I’ve read some things that indicate that was not the case (though I’m not sure if the Germans still _perceived_ it to be the case at the time). But I don’t have the depth of knowledge to know what’s really accurate. I do know, however, that the treaty was more lenient than what Germany had planned for the Allies if they’d won. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/39 "2015-07-18T19:35:45Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > Another hitler is impossible. Another dictator as bad as hitler but from a completely different angle? Maybe. But as likely to be texan as european. Or a would-be billionaire from New York? From Scottish actor Robert Carlyle, who played the [early years Hitler](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-05-18/entertainment/0305180151_1_cbs-hitler-hermann-goering-crude) in the movie “Hitler: The Rise of Evil”: > [@](#): > > Among the first surprises revealed by Carlyle and screenwriter John Pielmeier (“Agnes of God”) is the fact there was nothing particularly shrewd nor subtle about Hitler’s crusade during these early years. He was shrilly screaming, “Get rid of the Jews!” right out of the gate, as it were, and it was that crudeness and lack of finesse that, ironically, may have worked in his favor, Carlyle says. > > “Among people of sophistication and influence, it must have been impossible to take Hitler seriously,” the actor says, his off-camera burr jarring wildly against the memory of the clipped speech used in his performance. "Hitler sounded like a clown, and he dressed weirdly, too. His speeches were so shrill that a lot of people assumed he couldn’t be speaking literally, or that at least, he would ‘forget’ about these extreme attitudes once he got some authority. > > “These people, who should have done the right thing and denounced him from the very beginning, had the terrible notion that they could ‘handle’ Hitler and exploit him to their own ends, so they groomed him and gave him credibility. Of course, before they knew it, he was completely out of control.” Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240/40 "2015-07-18T19:41:26Z")
Color me pleasantly surprised. I would have thought in a thread about the rise of a new Hitler someone would have made an asinine Obama comment by now. I apologize for underestimating the fine people of the SDMB. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-european-dictator-like-hitler-emerge/725240.md?page=3)