# Could a highly experienced small aircraft pilot successfully be talked through the landing of an airliner, as in "Zero Hour! " and "Airplane!"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2025, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679 "2025-11-08T04:00:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/41 "2025-11-10T23:11:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > All tales of simulator training being equal to actually training on a real airliner aside, has anyone ever gotten their pilot’s license based on simulator training alone? All of my jet type ratings were earned in the sim without ever touching the real plane first. That’s pretty standard. But if you’re asking if someone can earn their Private Pilot License by sim only, the answer is no. There is some credit toward the instrument rating though, depending on what level simulator you’re using. Sometimes non-pilots are incredulous when they learn airline pilots get qualified without ever flying the real plane. It is sort of a strange idea, but it’s now the standard. My first flight as an airline pilot was on a normal revenue trip during my “Initial Operating Experience” phase. The captain is specially qualified for that situation (and gets a bonus, usually). That’s a tough gig - depending on the background of the new first officer, the training captain is basically flying single-pilot at first. On day one I was the pilot monitoring on the first leg and I flew the second leg. It would be a lie to say I performed spectacularly, but I got through IOE in the usual time period. But I was told it would take about three months to learn the job adequately, and six months before I’d be really good at it. That was about right. The interesting thing about going from simulator to airline ops is that sim training is mostly focused on emergencies. You do very little “normal” flying - I’d say 75% was with one engine failed. So I was completely ready to fly the thing down to minimums with an engine on fire, but I had to learn what “normal” looked like. It’s an odd experience. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/42 "2025-11-10T23:14:35Z")
The QI episode I linked above points out that if both pilots died, say, you couldn’t even get into the cockpit of a commercial jet airliner (since 9/11 that is). So no landing for you! ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2025, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/43 "2025-11-10T23:33:44Z")
You would eventually encounter the ground, just not in a survivable way. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/44 "2025-11-11T02:10:42Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@md-2000](#): > > > > Recall a smaller jet (737? Dc-9?) tried to land on a highway in the Southern USA when the engines both died after flying through a thunderstorm with hail (a highly discouraged procedure). They almost made it and were down but still going fast when a wing clipped a light pole. > > I don’t know that one … It was a DC-9: > **[Southern Airways Flight 242](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Airways_Flight_242)** > > Southern Airways Flight 242 was a flight from Muscle Shoals, Alabama, to Atlanta, Georgia, with a stop in Huntsville, Alabama. On April 4, 1977, it executed a forced landing on Georgia State Route 381 in New Hope, Paulding County, Georgia, United States, after suffering hail damage and losing thrust on both engines in a severe thunderstorm.: 1  > At the time of the accident, the Southern Airways aircraft was flying from Huntsville-Madison County Jetport to Hartsfield Atlanta International Airpo... It is a very famous mishap in airline training circles. The pilots were 99% heroes in that. No shade in their direction. They got trapped on a day with truly insane thunderstorms everywhere. Using the primitive already-obsolete radar installed in their jet, they aimed for the smallest thinnest spot they could find on the radar to penetrate out of the trap they were in. But instead of a thin spot, it was a storm of such insane tornadic intensity that the rain rate at the front-side perimeter of it completely blocked the radar beam, making the 90% of the rest of the even worse storm behind there look just like clear air. So they got suckered into flying dead center into the worst of the worst. And flew through a wall of hail that was multiple _miles_ across. Then were totally cool under fire after the storm killed both engines and greatly fractured both windshields along with extreme turbulence. They almost made it safe to the ground except for the pole line alongside the road they picked on very short notice after they had glided out the bottom of the clouds. The training point was how to recognize the difference between real clear air and what’s called “attenuation”, the loss of radar return because the storm is eating all the outbound energy, leaving none to reflect back to the radar and display an echo. Modern (~post 2000) radars can do that automatically and warn you of excessive attenuation. The 1960s radars I started on (in the late 1980s) relied on your brain and training for that. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > And, the pilot only had one functioning eye. My Dad lost one eyeball to cancer at age 53. And returned to airline flying at age 55 with just one functioning eye. One-eyed pilots are not really all that rare. I personally know / knew a couple others. > [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > So I was completely ready to fly the thing down to minimums with an engine on fire, but I had to learn what “normal” looked like. It’s an odd experience. Yup. You’re sitting there the whole time waiting for the shit to hit the fan. And it just … doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/45 "2025-11-11T02:50:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It was a DC-9: Oh yeah, I saw that one on Mayday. I didn’t remember the light pole. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/46 "2025-11-11T02:57:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > One-eyed pilots are not really all that rare. I personally know / knew a couple others. Binocular depth perception only works out to distances of 30 feet or so. And if you’re in an airplane, and there’s something you need to know the distance to, and it’s less than 30 feet away, no amount of visual acuity is going to save you. (cue goat Far Side) I suppose that the decrease of field of view might be relevant, but for that, you can just turn your head a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/47 "2025-11-11T03:08:26Z")
'Zactly. Dad made a lot of messes trying to pour wine into glasses at arm’s length, but accurately seeing 50 to 300 feet away to judge e.g. landings was not really anything new and different for him. ---
**Author:** ![Sooner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sooner/32/7875_2.png) [@Sooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sooner)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/48 "2025-11-11T03:25:01Z")
My father retired from the USAF flying C-141s (very similar to 707s of the time) in 1969. I have serious doubts he could have landed a modern airliner - if somehow suddenly transported into one back in the day. With a few hours of systems training, then no doubt. You have to stay ahead of the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/49 "2025-11-11T14:30:01Z")
So, this discussion shows landing a modern jetliner is essentially impossible for a layman-pilot. What if it was 1970, and the plane was a 707. Could a highly experienced small aircraft pilot be talked through that landing? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/50 "2025-11-11T15:57:29Z")
It was a LOT harder then than now. Now at least there’s the possibility of a) having practiced in a home sim, and b) using some or all of the automation to lighten the workload. A 707 in 1970 had none of that stuff. Much harder, much more manual. Much more real time. And the 707 was a right pig to wrassle with. Like driving a 1960s dumptruck with a manual non-synchromesh transmission and no power steering. It took real muscle to control. And also would benefit from having a live flight engineer (“FE”) to do his (99.999% “his” in 1970) tasks relevant to descent and landing. Of course if the FE was alive, he’d be the one performing the landing. By then they were almost all rated pilots awaiting their promotion to co-pilot. And the few who were not rated pilots had at least been given real sim training in doing an emergency landing in that aircraft type. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2025, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/51 "2025-11-11T17:25:57Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > What if it was 1970, and the plane was a 707. Could a highly experienced small aircraft pilot be talked through that landing? I would say not a chance. ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/52 "2025-11-16T16:22:25Z")
Could Richard “Beebo” Russell have gotten that Q400 down safely, had he changed his mind? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/53 "2025-11-16T16:38:15Z")
Probably not, and we will never know. ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/54 "2025-11-16T17:18:27Z")
I mean taking into account how well/poorly he’d been flying it until purposely crashing it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/55 "2025-11-16T17:21:26Z")
Sorry-same answer. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/56 "2025-11-16T17:43:29Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It was a DC-9: Thanks. It happened about the time I was doing private pilot lessons, and I recall the point was made then that with small general aviation aircraft and VFR never never fly near thunderstorms. The regular news simply said they flew into a thunderstorm, and none of the details about the complexity of the weather etc. which I assume came out in detail in the investigation. One moral being that technology has is limitations and blind spots, as their weather radar demonstrated. The other moral is it does not take much to mess up a landing. Those wings are designed specifically to not break off cleanly. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/57 "2025-11-16T20:16:05Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > The other moral is it does not take much to mess up a landing. When the minimum unobstructed width you need is ~100 feet = 8+ lanes, and the minimum nearly straight length is over a mile, and you need no bridges or wires or traffic lights crossing the surface, it quickly becomes obvious that hunks of road like that are real rare. The actual pavement width needed isn’t that wide; the gear width on a DC9/737/A320 is on the order of 20 feet. Given some tolerance for not being perfectly centered, maybe 30-40 feet equals “just” 3-4 unobstructed lanes. But you also need no vertical obstructions for the full 100+ foot width. Any urban / suburban road will have streetlight poles along one or both edges. A rural road may not have that, but it’ll probably have a powerline running along one side or another. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/58 "2025-11-16T23:08:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Any urban / suburban road will have streetlight poles along one or both edges. Fun random fact: Taiwan has a few of these. > TAIPEI, Sept 15 (Reuters) - Taiwanese fighter jets landed on a makeshift runway on a highway strip on Wednesday overseen by President Tsai Ing-wen as annual drills reached their peak, skills that would be needed in the event China attacks and targets Taiwan’s vulnerable air bases. and in the article: > Taiwan has five emergency highway runways across the island which can be pressed into service in the event a Chinese attack takes out air force bases, meaning the air force will still be able to operate. So a really rare exception. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/59 "2025-11-16T23:12:54Z")
Sweden and Cuba have similar arrangements. Obviously the Swedish facilities are in good condition and the Cuban ones are mostly notional by now. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2025, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679/60 "2025-11-16T23:37:36Z")
You sometimes see the rumor that this was a design goal behind the US Interstate Highway System, too, but I don’t think there’s any actual basis for this. Which also leads me to suspect the validity of claims that any other given nation has done so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-highly-experienced-small-aircraft-pilot-successfully-be-talked-through-the-landing-of-an-airliner-as-in-zero-hour-and-airplane/1024679.md?page=4)