Yes, that was a hilarious spectacle. Especially since Dan Rather himself is approximately as old as the typewriter. Doesn’t he remember the technology of the mid 70s?
That document should have been fishier than a cat’s breath at a clambake.
Yes, that was a hilarious spectacle. Especially since Dan Rather himself is approximately as old as the typewriter. Doesn’t he remember the technology of the mid 70s?
That document should have been fishier than a cat’s breath at a clambake.
Similarly, a high-profile recent case in the UK was resolved without resort to chemical testing.
This centred around a book called Himmler’s Secret War by Martin Allen, whose most sensational claim was that Himmler was assassinated by the British government - with the striking additional detail that the killer was the father of the well known editor and satirist Richard Ingrams. This was based on a relatively small number of documents in a couple of wartime files in the National Archives at Kew. Investigations by them and the police concluded that the particular documents in question were forgeries that had been smuggled in and added to existing, legitimate NA files.
What’s particularly interesting in the context of this thread is that the National Archives have put online the independent forensic technical reports they’d commissioned. The expert didn’t do any chemical analysis to date them whatsoever. His reports do go through the detailed physical characteristics of the documents and he obviously checked for things like datable watermarks. What damned them, however, was his conclusion that they’d all been typed on the same typewriter when they’d supposedly been written by different people in widely separated locations. He couldn’t really thus actually date the documents, but could show that as a group they were fishy.
(At some point another forensic expert did suggest that one of the letterheads could only have been produced by a laserprinter, which would be more decisive.)
Along with the internal evidence of whether the detailed contents of the document are plausible, I suspect this sort of conclusion is the norm in such cases rather than chemical testing trying to establish a date. Which isn’t to say that such testing isn’t done - the Hitler Diaries or the Netherlands Institute for Wartime Documentation’s study of Anne Frank’s diary, for example - but the stakes have to be relatively high for it to be worthwhile.
Not a lot of people would remember the particular typewriter in question here. It was a sophisticated high-quality model that used proportional spacing, and wasn’t used widely or for very long. And few things are as forgotten as forgotten technology.
I actually never suggested dating using Carbon-14 - I suggested that an analysis of the C[sup]14[/sup] content would indicate whether the paper had been produced before the nuclear tests in the mid 50s. You would need some standards for comparison, but the results should be pretty compelling.
It is the battery of tests that can be done now, and the accuracy they deliver, that would make it so easy to detect. But the real art of forgery is to make the forgery so plausible that no-one actually questions the authenticity, and so these tests are not applied.
Si
He made at least one other major goof: his “Oath of a Freeman” (IIRC) was etched in a big piece of brass for printing and careful examination of it proved that it could not have been typeset (I believe there were overlaps between ascenders and descenders).
The reason why i asked, is that i bought 9at a yard sale) a book from 1951, autographed by the author. Could the signature be a forgery?
Ah, that’s quite different! Unless the forger duplicated an entire book, the book is probably geniune. You need to know if the signature is genuine, right?
First, you need to compare the sig with known good ones of the same person. If it is a big deal, you need the services of a document examiner (NOT a graphologist!). He will look at the ink and signs of pressure on the paper as well.
Is this a major author, such that the addition of a signature would greatly increase the book’s value? If not, the chances of a forgery are much less.
You can’t fool me. 2CVs don’t use ethylene glycol.
The funniest part of the whole thing is that the secretary who would have typed the originals is still around to ask, had CBS bothered.
Sure it could. But without knowing more information, there’s no way to tell. Remember that authors get asked to sign old books all the time. Is the signature dated? When did the author die? Was it inscribed to the people who held the yard sale?
Fake signatures on books do happen. But if somebody were trying to pull a fast one, why sell it at a yard sale for presumably peanuts rather than on the internet for large sums of money?
You need to ask yourself, what are the odds?
Speaking of French wine, wine forgeries are believed to be a huge problem in the auction market. I can’t find the article now (I heard it on NPR, I believe, so it may not have a transcript), but I believe the upshot of creating forgeries (at least for the wine market) is this: You can forge almost any wine (the bottle/label, that is … once it’s opened, it’s obviously too late to complain), but at a certain point, the cost of doing so convincingly outweighs the money you could make on that wine at auction. I believe the breakeven point for current detection methods is in the tens of thousands of dollars (30-60k per bottle, I want to say). If the wine bottle would sell for less than that, it’s not worth doing. You don’t want to spend $50,000 creating an undetectable forgery of a wine that will only sell for $500 a bottle at auction.
Probably it is legit.
Did you pay extra for the signature? If not, there was no profit the deal for a forger.
As for wine forging, the book Billionaires Vinegar details much of the mystery, and problems that wine forgeries from very old vintages has caused. They talk about 17th & 18th century wines, and lack of provenance, and other details quite extensively. Interesting read.