# Could a Mormon get elected POTUS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613 "2006-03-16T16:49:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![EEMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@EEMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EEMan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/61 "2006-03-20T17:34:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Those whom I’ve encountred, also, are firmly convinced that it is the whites who are “God’s chosen people.” And I’m not talking about that racist Christian Identity movement either. They haven’t been reading the bible. Those would be the Tribes of Isreal, or if you prefer the Hebrew or Jews. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/62 "2006-03-20T18:07:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Thanks, FriarTed. Most, if not all, of the Fundamentalists I’ve encountered are dead-set against a woman serving in a leadership position and certainly would not support one for the office of the Presidency. Those whom I’ve encountred, also, are firmly convinced that it is the whites who are “God’s chosen people.” And I’m not talking about that racist Christian Identity movement either. I can safely say I’ve never met any Fundists or Fundies who really believe that whites are God’s chosen people. And do we really want to talk about religious groups with histories of odd racial beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/63 "2006-03-20T18:23:27Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > And do we really want to talk about religious groups with histories of odd racial beliefs? In a Mormon-related thread, **Ted,** that is inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![EEMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@EEMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EEMan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/64 "2006-03-20T18:25:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In a Mormon-related thread, **Ted,** that is inevitable. I’m not aware of ANY religion that was fully integreated prior to the civil rights movement (in the US at least). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/65 "2006-03-20T18:36:02Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > And do we really want to talk about religious groups with histories of odd racial beliefs? If the subject of the thread is a religious group that refused as recently as 1978 to allow blacks full membership, being damned as they are with the Curses of Cain and Ham, we can’t very well avoid it, can we? Not to take this further afield, but there were comments earlier that the LDS Church isn’t misogynist but merely sexist. I don’t get that - isn’t sexism simply low-grade misogyny? Can you truly, fully love and respect someone on whom you wish to have limitations placed that wouldn’t be placed on you? If not, then what is it? ---
**Author:** ![EEMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@EEMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EEMan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/66 "2006-03-20T18:40:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Can you truly, fully love and respect someone on whom you wish to have limitations placed that wouldn’t be placed on you? There are a number of ‘limitations’ I would have placed on those that I love, even if they were not placed on me (as I’m sure there are for you as well). There are no benfits I would restrict from those I loved, but limiting some things; absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/67 "2006-03-20T18:40:58Z")
Such as what? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/68 "2006-03-20T18:42:14Z")
> [@EEMan](#): > > I’m not aware of ANY religion that was fully integreated prior to the civil rights movement (in the US at least). But no other religion, not even Christian Identity, has beliefs about race as, well, **odd** as those the Mormons (historically) have had. > **[Judaism and Mormonism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Judaism)** > > Mormonism, or the Latter Day Saint movement, teaches that its adherents are either direct descendants of the House of Israel or adopted into it. As such, Mormons regard Jews as a covenant people of God, and hold them in high esteem. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), the largest church in Mormonism, is philo-Semitic in its doctrine. > God in Judaism is strictly monotheistic, an absolute one, indivisible, incorporeal and incomparable being who is the ultimate cause of all... > **[Black people and Mormonism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_Mormonism)** > > Over the past two centuries, the relationship between black people and Mormonism includes both official and unofficial discrimination. From the mid-1800s until 1978, the LDS Church prevented most men of black African descent from being ordained to the church's lay priesthood, barred black men and women from participating in the ordinances of its temples and opposed interracial marriage. Since black men of African descent could not receive the priesthood, they were excluded from holding leader... > **[Lamanites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamanites#Theories_about_Lamanites)** > > The Lamanites (/ˈleɪmənaɪt/) are one of the four ancient peoples (along with the Jaredites, the Mulekites, and the Nephites) described as having settled in the ancient Americas in the Book of Mormon, a sacred text of the Latter Day Saint movement. The Lamanites also play a role in the prophecies and revelations of the Doctrine and Covenants, another sacred text in the Latter Day Saint movement. > In the Book of Mormon’s narrative, the Lamanites began as wicked rivals to the more righteous Nephites... > **[Nephites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephite)** > > According to the Book of Mormon, the Nephites (/ˈniːfaɪt/) are one of four groups (along with the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) to have settled in the ancient Americas. The term is used throughout the Book of Mormon to describe the religious, political, and cultural traditions of the group of settlers. > The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God in about 600 BC and t... ---
**Author:** ![EEMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@EEMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EEMan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/69 "2006-03-20T18:42:50Z")
As far as being ‘racist’. [source](http://lds.about.com/library/weekly/previousyears/aa021898.htm) > [@](#): > > Was It Prejudice? > However, even with a firm understanding of the Priesthood, a person is still left to wonder why Black African members would be denied the blessings of the Priesthood. Some people believe it to be an issue of racism or prejudice. This is not true. In fact, in the early days of the Church members were persecuted for not being prejudiced enough. > > The saints were accused of being abolitionists and a threat to the status of the state of Missouri, then a slave state. Even from the 1900s to the 1940s, when there was a general segregation of Blacks from so-called white churches, there was no Church policy of racial segregation of blacks and whites in THE CHURCH of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints. > D. Charles Pyle, Encyclopedia of Mormonism > In those days the general public was not concerned about the blacks receiving the Priesthood. Most of the white folk owned slaves and believed that Black Africans should not be allowed even the least of privileges. The truth be known, many believed that black people did not even possess souls. The prophet Joseph Smith spoke out on this matter. > > …they came into the world slaves, mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation. > History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 217 > And in 1863 Brigham Young taught, > For their abuse of [the Black African] race, the whites will be cursed, unless they repent. > Journal of Discourses, Vol.10, p.110 ---
**Author:** ![EEMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@EEMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EEMan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/70 "2006-03-20T18:46:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Such as what? For me, or for you? Anything ‘negative’ or undue responsibility (with no additional benefits). An example; I would hope that no one I loved would ever have to die for their beliefs; in fact if it were in my power I would restirct it fully, even if such restriction were not avalible to me. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/71 "2006-03-25T20:40:01Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > fg means that while many fundies may or may not be receptive to a female or minority President, they would be dead set against a candidate they considered to be a “corrupter to the true faith (who is thus) going to hell”. What I was saying, as someone raised a conservative Evangelical Protestant, & thus, technically, more or less a “Fundamentalist,” is that it’s an unfair shot at “Fundies” to claim that they’re all racist & sexist. Unless “Fundamentalist” is to be restricted only to the hardcore legalists who think that however things were done two generations ago was appointed by God Himself. The Religious Right base includes a lot of Christians–not “Christian Identity”–who are not against Blacks in positions of authority, nor against women in secular authority. Ever hear of Alan Keyes? Where do you think his support comes from? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/72 "2006-03-25T21:02:19Z")
Then again, I always thought some of those who venerated American tradition of a few generations ago & insisted on only using the King James Version were off the deep end; so I can’t say my family is typical Fundie. Further, my experience with hardcore Protestantism leans slightly toward the charismatic (& those people are big on racially mixed congregations), so I may just be unaware of how racist much of the Bible Belt is. And the sort of relatively non-racist, non-sexist evangelicals I know probably don’t much care about the sectarian theology of someone in purely secular authority. So maybe Mormonism isn’t a greater impediment to getting a nomination than race, Bible Belt-wise. But then again, the Bible Belt ain’t quite what it used to be, & neither is the GOP. If a relatively orthodox Protestant affiliation becomes more important in W. Bush’s America, it _could_ become more important than something as superficial as skin melanin or commonplace as a uterus. But on second thought, I think Mormons, Blacks, & women aren’t as on the outs as some think. > [@Monty](#): > > 1. Could a Mormon be elected President of the United States of America? I seriously doubt it. My personal opinion is that, so long as the Bible Belt is still a part of the US, a Mormon, a woman, or a minority member will never be elected President. Bah, I think you’re just wrong on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/73 "2006-03-26T07:10:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If the subject of the thread is a religious group that refused as recently as 1978 to allow blacks full membership, being damned as they are with the Curses of Cain and Ham, we can’t very well avoid it, can we? Excuse me? Full membership was not denied anyone. Get baptized into the LDS Church and you’re a member. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/74 "2006-03-26T07:14:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Bah, I think you’re just wrong on all counts. Really? I think my opinion is well-founded; however, I did indicate it as my opinion. Here’s what I based it on: My experience growing up for a portion of my life in the Bible Belt, seeing and hearing how quite a few members of that population act in regards to women or minorities have the gumption to be in charge of something. Now, I do realize that I’m a tad older now than when I lived there. Maybe things have changed. I’ll tell you when I believe things have changed enough: when a woman or a Mormon runs for president and a huge portion of the Bible Belt vote for that candidate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/75 "2006-03-26T14:49:55Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If a relatively orthodox Protestant affiliation becomes more important in W. Bush’s America, it _could_ become more important than something as superficial as skin melanin or commonplace as a uterus. Hmm? Do you mean the Methodist Church might become more important than it is now, or the Baptist, or Presbyterian? Or just that belonging to “a relatively orthodox Protestant affiliation” – which has been an important thing throughout American history – might become even more important? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/76 "2006-03-26T15:05:08Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Excuse me? Full membership was not denied anyone. Get baptized into the LDS Church and you’re a member. [Is this incorrect?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_Mormonism) > [@](#): > > As the LDS Church expanded throughout the United States and South America - and especially into Brazil - in the 1960’s and 70’s, the treatment of blacks came under more scrutiny. This denomination had instituted **an officially-sanctioned ban on blacks holding the Priesthood**. In 1978, the LDS Church ended this policy, and renounced its earlier doctrines. Today, the only Latter Day Saint denominations that officially teach these doctrines, or who maintain a ban on blacks in the priesthood, are within the various small sects of Mormon fundamentalism, which disagrees with the LDS Church’s 1978 reversal. \*Every \* adult male Mormon is part of the Priesthood, right? If you aren’t a Priest, you aren’t really a \*full \* member, right? Until 1978, if you were black, QED, right? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/77 "2006-03-26T15:46:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Is this incorrect?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_Mormonism)\*Every \* adult male Mormon is part of the Priesthood, right? If you aren’t a Priest, you aren’t really a \*full \* member, right? Until 1978, if you were black, QED, right? Nope. You’re wrong. Every male Mormon is not a member of the Priesthood. Priesthood offices in the Church are just that, anyway, offices. Membership is a different story. One must be a member of the Church first before one can hold an office in the Priesthood. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/78 "2006-03-26T16:26:21Z")
Think of it like this, **Elvis** : there are plenty of Catholics, but not so many Catholic priests, right? Are all those lay Catholics not really members of their church? I’d write more, but we’re getting ready to go to church. Bye. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/79 "2006-03-26T22:46:50Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Think of it like this, **Elvis** : there are plenty of Catholics, but not so many Catholic priests, right? Are all those lay Catholics not really members of their church? And I would say female Catholics are **full** members of the Church, even though they can’t aspire to be priests. (Some Catholic feminists might disagree . . .) ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613/80 "2006-03-27T02:15:37Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Think of it like this, **Elvis** : there are plenty of Catholics, but not so many Catholic priests, right? Are all those lay Catholics not really members of their church? Bad analogy, **dangermom**. For a Catholic to become a Priest, he must go through years of studying and make many vows, including celibacy. Many do not continue and do not receive the Priesthood. A Catholic Priest is better likened to a Bishop in the LDS church, the spiritual leader of a congregation. A Mormon Priesthood holder, however, has to be a member of record in the church, a minimum of 12 years old, male, and judged to be worthy by advanced Priesthood holders after interviews. Virtually none are rejected. If you were to compare the number of male non-priesthood holders that are active members vs. the number of active member male priesthood holders in the LDS church, you’d probably (WAG coming here - I admit it) have a ratio of 10,000 to 1 or more in favor of the priesthood holders, while in the Catholic Church that number would probably be reversed. > [@Monty](#): > > Full membership was not denied anyone. Get baptized into the LDS Church and you’re a member. Absolutely correct. However, prior to 1978, to receive the _full_ blessings of the LDS church, eventually leading to full exaltation in God’s presence, you could not be of African ancestry (i.e. black). African ancestry males could be members of the church, but could not hold the priesthood that practically every non-black male over the age of 12 could obtain. The church taught prior to 1978 that blacks could not participate in the LDS temples, and when they died, would not obtain the highest level of exaltation available to non-black members. To their credit, the LDS church renounced this doctrine in 1978. But vestiges of this doctrine remain, including in the Book of Mormon, where it states that white people are delightsome, and black people are not “enticing” and “loathsome” to the Lord’s chosen people, and they are forbidden to “mix their seed” with the loathsome black people. (2 Nephi 5:21-23) And that will be a problem of any member of the LDS church that seeks public office. The racism of the church in the past, even the recent past, will hang over them for a long, long time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-mormon-get-elected-potus/348613.md?page=5)