# Could a NBC American Pope serve as President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506 "2017-11-13T02:03:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/1 "2017-11-13T02:03:20Z")
Inspired by a fragment of [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20596877&postcount=71) in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20598114&posted=1#post20598114): > [@Who Is The Left's Equivalent Of Donald Trump?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-lefts-equivalent-of-donald-trump/801137/71): > > You need someone like the Pope, but with an excess of melatonin. Let’s say for instance, that Pope Francis starts letting priests be married (and married men become priests). Let’s further say that a devout fella who we’ll call Rick Bricker hears the call, gets the go-ahead from his wife, and enters the priesthood. His is a successful ministry, and he moves up in the heirarchy to Monsignor, Bishop, Archbishop, and Cardinal. Then (G-d forbid), Pope Francis passes away, and Cardinal Bricker is summoned to Rome to participate in the election of Francis’s successor. (NBC in this case, stands for (Natural Born Citizen) A slight complication exists within this hypothetical, however. Cardinal Bricker has by acclamation, been given his [major] party’s nomination for the upcoming U. S. Presidential election (because this is happening in an election year). As fate would have it, he also was given the nomination of the opposing major party. And THEN! And then, friends and neighbors, Cardinal Bricker goes and gets himself elected Pope! And wins the American Presidential election on the same day (because let’s make this thing as outlandish as we can)! Is there a Constitutional barrier to Pope-President-elect Bricker taking the oath of office the following January? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/2 "2017-11-13T02:25:02Z")
It _could_ be a barrier, but it would require proof that he had acted “with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality” when he accepted the headship of a foreign state. If he was a presidential candidate at the time, that would be good evidence that he _didn’t_ intend to relinquish his US nationality. But if the Pope-President continued to accept any of the accoutrements of his papal office, it would probably be a violation of the US Constitution, which prohibits the president from accepting “any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/3 "2017-11-13T02:28:47Z")
It would violate Article I, Section 9, paragraph 8 of the US Constitution: > [@](#): > > 8: No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State. He’d have to get Congress’s approval to hold both offices. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/4 "2017-11-13T02:37:03Z")
U.S. Constitution, Article 1, section 9: > [@](#): > > No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State. I believe that means that you cannot simultaneously hold a U.S. government office, and a foreign government office. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/5 "2017-11-13T02:47:11Z")
Except that the Pope doesn’t receive emoluments from a king, prince, or foreign state: He _is_ the king of the foreign state. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/6 "2017-11-13T03:08:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Except that the Pope doesn’t receive emoluments from a king, prince, or foreign state: He _is_ the king of the foreign state. Would not matter. It’s an office and title from a foreign state. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/7 "2017-11-13T03:08:39Z")
Look, the fellow has already been nominated by both parties. How much trouble will it be to obtain the Consent of Congress? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/8 "2017-11-13T03:13:42Z")
In this case, The President _would_ be taking orders from The Pope. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/9 "2017-11-13T03:17:59Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > In this case, The President _would_ be taking orders from The Pope. > > 😉 No, The Pope would be taking orders from the president! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/10 "2017-11-13T03:21:53Z")
A better question might be if our hypothetical nominee was the head of a different religion, one that didn’t make him a titled person of another state. Let’s say he was “The Prophet” in the Mormon Religion (or whatever the top guy in that religion is called). I don’t see that as a constitutional problem, just as that we have had Catholic priests in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/11 "2017-11-13T16:39:12Z")
[Ezra Taft Benson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Taft_Benson) was a member of the Mormon Quorum of the Twelve Apostles at the same time he was U.S. Secretary of Agriculture. The Forum is pretty high-ranking, but of course neither the Forum or being a cabinet secretary is the top job. Still, back in the 1950s it wasn’t a problem. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/12 "2017-11-13T16:48:21Z")
Of course, The Queen has no problem with being head of state and head of the Anglican church at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/13 "2017-11-13T16:53:36Z")
> [@Civil\_Guy](#): > > Look, the fellow has already been nominated by both parties. How much trouble will it be to obtain the Consent of Congress? I might have to think this guy is the Anti-Christ/Beast of Revelation (mix of biblical and pop culture versions). Everyone loves him (at least popular with both parties in US, anyway) - that’s a prerequisite. And he’s both President of the USA and Pope - and people with those jobs are frequently believed to the Anti-Christ. Something to be concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/14 "2017-11-13T17:06:22Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Of course, The Queen has no problem with being head of state and head of the Anglican church at the same time. The (unwritten) British constitution is rather different from the U.S. Constitution. However, it is quite clear that the monarch of the U.K. cannot be the Pope, since he or she cannot even be a Roman Catholic, and that’s a qualification for being the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/15 "2017-11-13T17:13:08Z")
In 1983, the Roman Catholic Church specifically banned Catholic clergy from holding political office, after Pope John Paul II forbid the practice in 1980, forcing two U.S. priests to abandon their Congressional campaigns. One of the two priests affected by the 1980 ruling was [Father Robert Cornell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_John_Cornell), who had been my Congressman. So, even if it was constitutionally allowed, Catholic canon law wouldn’t allow it. > **[Catholic priests in public office | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_priests_in_public_office#United_States)** > > Possibly the earliest known instance of a Catholic priest serving in public office in the United States was Gabriel Richard. Born in France, he founded the University of Michigan and served as a delegate from Michigan Territory from 1823 to 1825. > Two priests, Robert Drinan and Robert John Cornell, have served in the United States Congress. In 1980, when Pope John Paul II decreed that priests not serve in elected office, Representative Drinan withdrew from his re-election campaign, and Cornell w... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/16 "2017-11-13T17:20:54Z")
[The National Constitution Center](https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/would-an-american-pope-lose-his-u-s-citizenship) has weighed in with a firm…“Don’t know”. While there may be a prohibition against applying for foreign citizenship, in this cased it isn’t applied for but automatically granted. As far as the granting of titles of nobility is concerned, > [@](#): > > The Constitution does prescribe rules on titles of nobility, but that mostly deals with the case of the U.S. government and states granting noble titles (which it can’t do). . Titles can be given by foreign governments, but our government won’t officially recognize such titles. This may lead to a situation where the Ameri-Pope becomes a U.S. President, but our government refuses to recognize him as Pope. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/17 "2017-11-13T18:34:02Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > [Ezra Taft Benson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Taft_Benson) was a member of the Mormon Quorum of the Twelve Apostles at the same time he was U.S. Secretary of Agriculture. The senior leadership of the Mormon church are not officers of their own sovereign city-state. (Though they probably would like to be.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/18 "2017-11-13T18:48:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > A better question might be if our hypothetical nominee was the head of a different religion, one that didn’t make him a titled person of another state. Let’s say he was “The Prophet” in the Mormon Religion (or whatever the top guy in that religion is called). I don’t see that as a constitutional problem, just as that we have had Catholic priests in Congress. First off, **John Mace** , mad props for getting the title essentially right. We refer to the leader of the Church here on Earth as either “President \_\_\_\_” or “the prophet”. President Monson isn’t in very good health right now, so probably not a great candidate for President, but I don’t see that he’d be Constitutionally-barred from doing so. > [@friedo](#): > > The senior leadership of the Mormon church are not officers of their own sovereign city-state. (Though they probably would like to be.) I highly doubt that. The Mormons were pretty keen to be part of the USA, even very early on: [State of Deseret - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Deseret) ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/19 "2017-11-13T22:09:44Z")
He would then hypothetically be the head of two states. I don’t know how they’d feel about that in Vatican City, but I can’t see it going over well in the U. S. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506/20 "2017-11-13T23:50:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Is there a Constitutional barrier to Pope-President-elect Bricker taking the oath of office the following January? I can’t tell you. You’re not a Catholic. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-nbc-american-pope-serve-as-president/801506.md?page=2)