# Could a plane be shipped by train? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839 "2022-03-10T16:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/21 "2022-03-10T18:00:01Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Could a ship be trained by a plane? If it’s a plain plane on the plain…but only if it’s not raining in Spain. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/22 "2022-03-10T18:01:02Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > > Could a ship be trained by a plane? > > If it’s a plain plane on the plain…but only if it’s not raining in Spain. - We need someone to explain that Spain thing. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/23 "2022-03-10T18:01:03Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Could you mount them on a train if you rolled the MIG 90 degrees sideways? Even if you could, you’d then be trading an issue with horizontal clearance for an issue with vertical clearance. In addition to tunnels, train tracks often run under bridges, viaducts, power lines, etc., most of which are going to have a vertical clearance of much less than the 40-ish feet you’d need to account for both the wingspan of the MiG, and the flat car on which it’s being carried. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/24 "2022-03-10T18:08:07Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It still holds the U.S. rail speed record, of 183.68 mph. That is the speed record for a train in the USA? I’m not [impressed](https://www.railway-technology.com/features/feature-the-10-fastest-high-speed-trains-in-europe/). ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/25 "2022-03-10T18:09:33Z")
But what if the train is on a treadmill? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/26 "2022-03-10T18:13:25Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > That is the speed record for a train in the USA? I’m not [impressed](https://www.railway-technology.com/features/feature-the-10-fastest-high-speed-trains-in-europe/). Yeah, the U.S. has never invested in high-speed rail the way that Japan and portions of Europe have. Probably the fastest regularly-scheduled trains in the U.S. today are the Amtrak passenger trains on the “Northeast Corridor” (between Boston and Washington D.C.); the Acela trains which run in that corridor are capable of 150mph, but due to track conditions and traffic, average well under that (more like 70-80mph). There have been numerous proposals to create and improve more high-speed rail corridors in the U.S., but most haven’t gotten off the ground, or remain fairly small-scale. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/27 "2022-03-10T18:18:08Z")
Then the plane never takes off, evidently. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/28 "2022-03-10T18:58:23Z")
How about having [My Fair Lady](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVmU3iANbgk) ex-plain it? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/29 "2022-03-10T20:31:35Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Allow me to present to you the experimental M-497 “Black Beetle” railcar, developed by the New York Central Railroad in the 1960s. They attached two jet engines from a B-36 bomber to the top of a Rail Diesel Car. It still holds the U.S. rail speed record, of 183.68 mph. M-497 continued to run – sans jet engines – until 1977. At least one engine went on to be used here: [![](https://www.ge.com/news/sites/default/files/Reports/uploads/2014/02/14150200/JetTrain7.jpg) ](https://www.ge.com/news/sites/default/files/Reports/uploads/2014/02/14150200/JetTrain7.jpg) The mechanism rotates; when operated in the “down” position, it clears snow. Like this: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9OO94Bk1cgw/hqdefault.jpg "Warning! Loud Noise! World's Largest Snow Blower") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OO94Bk1cgw) ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/30 "2022-03-10T20:39:29Z")
It takes nothing away from the brilliance of _Galaxy Quest_ by noting Sam Rockwell totally cribbed that from stand-up comedian Kevin Meaney. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gDXeLmWGIu8/hqdefault.jpg "Kevin Meaney - That’s not right") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDXeLmWGIu8) ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/31 "2022-03-10T20:51:34Z")
They shipped the shuttle SRBs by train, one of those should have a good 3 million pounds of thrust. Alas they transported them in peices , which is far less exciting. [![](https://i.imgur.com/1MkrH8i.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/1MkrH8i.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/32 "2022-03-10T22:51:14Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The bodies of locomotives and train cars are wider than that gauge (which determines the distance between the wheels), but not by a lot – in the U.S., most cars aren’t much wider than about 10 feet. Many train tracks may pass through areas where the horizontal clearance to either side of the tracks may not be a whole lot wider than the width of a train car. What you’re describing is called _loading gauge_ - the overall maximum width and height of rail cars and their cargo. In the US, the standard is 10’ 8" wide and 15’ 6" high in urban areas and 20’ 3" high in more open areas. It takes some planning to move exceptional loads like 737 fuselages, which are almost two feet wider, but I can’t tell from the pictures above if the width of the wing box is within that or not. In the pic running\_coach posted, it looks like the car carrying the fuselage has a clearance gauge at the front. I would assume the train moves very slowly for that to be useful. Likewise the train carrying the Shuttle SRBs - those three yellow rings on the first boxcar. Hit that and you’ll hit the rocket, which will really spoil your day. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/33 "2022-03-11T00:31:35Z")
Doh! [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMbqpOVZ00A) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/34 "2022-03-11T00:46:15Z")
I think these points are meaningless. Putin needs no pretext to expand the war to Poland. If he’s willing to attack a NATO nation he’s gonna do it. He’s already targeting hospitals and refugees. If Ukraine can’t safely fly planes from Polish airfields to Ukrainian airfields then this exercise is pointless, there’s little indication that Russia has complete air dominance right now. They aren’t staging attacks from Poland, that would be a different issue. And Poland is already the staging ground for mountains of materiel being transferred to Ukraine including Stingers and Javelins, the planes wouldn’t change that status. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/35 "2022-03-11T01:19:12Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > But what if the train is on a treadmill? Or if you packed a fighter jet on a train (whether in landscape or portrait orientation) and accelerated it to near-c speeds, you could sometimes get it through tunnels, bridges, power-lines, etc., by quantum tunneling. Sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/36 "2022-03-11T02:18:13Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Putin needs no pretext to expand the war to Poland. If he’s willing to attack a NATO nation he’s gonna do it. So your contention is “he hasn’t so he won’t”? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/37 "2022-03-11T02:51:37Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Allow me to present to you the experimental M-497 “Black Beetle” railcar, developed by the New York Central Railroad in the 1960s. They attached two jet engines from a B-36 bomber to the top of a Rail Diesel Car. It still holds the U.S. rail speed record, of 183.68 mph. If we’re straying this far from the OP’s topic, then I’d suggest the US rail speed record was set by this hypersonic sled traveling (yes, on rails) at about 6600 MPH: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuYIbYVLF4k) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/38 "2022-03-11T05:01:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Imagine how fast that train could go if the engines were still attached. 79 mph, same as in town. (In the US, federal regulations limit trains without _automatic train controls_ to 79 mph.) ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/39 "2022-03-12T02:13:52Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Why not just send Ukrainian pilots over to Poland and pick them up? Fully loaded of course. According to this article from Politico, at one point, that actually was the plan: > **[Shot down: How Biden scuttled the deal to get MiGs to Ukraine](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/10/poland-fighter-jet-deal-ukraine-russia-00016038)** > > After an errant comment, rapid-fire negotiations and blunt announcements, the plan to send warplanes to Ukraine is no more. > A [Ukrainian government official told POLITICO](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/28/ukrainian-pilots-arrive-in-poland-to-pick-up-donated-fighter-jets-00012560) that Ukrainian pilots had even traveled to Poland to wrap up the deal and bring the planes back over the border. As to why that didn’t wind up happening, from the reasons I suggested in my first reply, it appears 2) making Poland and NATO more directly involved in the conflict was actually a major factor in the plan being scuttled, especially once the idea of a transfer became public. Also apparently a major factor was U.S. military and intelligence assessments that transferring the aircraft wouldn’t actually do the Ukrainians much good. ---
**Author:** ![WatchMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8797f3/32.png) [@WatchMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WatchMe)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839/40 "2022-03-12T05:16:19Z")
I don’t think Ukraine really needs the Migs, but you might be able to ship them via rail. The Russians took the wings off and shipped one in an An-22 cargo plane in [this youtube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRrnfjPSVUU). I don’t know how close the wing stubs are to the walls but the cargo bay of this aircraft is 14ft wide so it’s less than that. The width of a Ukranian DPKr-3 train coach is 11.4ft wide. Assuming they have flat railcars the same width, the plane would probably hang over the side by a foot or so on each side. I don’t think they have many train tunnels, Ukraine is fairly flat. They wouldn’t have to go far anyway. And the train measurements are for a passenger train. They also have industrial rails which may or may not have more elbow room on the sides of the tracks. You wouldn’t have to take the train through a passenger terminal at least. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-plane-be-shipped-by-train/960839.md?page=3)