# Could a synagogue or mosque prohibit service pigs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619 "2012-10-03T20:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lew\_cody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e274bd/32.png) [@lew\_cody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lew_cody)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/1 "2012-10-03T20:02:08Z")
Some pigs are trained to assist people with disabilities, much like dogs or Capuchin monkeys, as in the following case (an unfortunate circumstance, but included for illustrative purposes): [http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/9088280/](http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/9088280/) Pigs are traditionally considered unclean (or at any rate, their meat is) in Judaism and Islam. Would it be problematic for someone with a service pig to bring their animal into a synagogue or mosque–not as a regular event, say, but for a wedding or just to check out the service? I presume the pig would normally be entitled to accompany its owner in most places of public accommodation, per the Americans with Disabilities Act. But do religious buildings (_just_ access to the buildings, mind you, not access to services available only to members of the religion) fall under “public accommodation”, or are religions free to refuse admission to people or animals that conflict in some way with their beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/2 "2012-10-03T20:08:55Z")
They only have to make “reasonable” adjustments, and for some reason it would be unreasonable to offend baseless superstition (or I bet that’s how the courts would see it) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/3 "2012-10-03T20:20:06Z")
This strikes me as an odd question, given that most Americans would consider dog meat “unclean” (or otherwise icky) yet wouldn’t have a problem with dogs as service animals. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/4 "2012-10-03T20:37:36Z")
I would say yes. Mrs. Cad was manager at a site that for sanitation reasons did not allow dogs on site, even in the car with me in the parking lot when dropping off a late dinner. They reassigned an officer that had a service dog and it was all perfectly legal. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/5 "2012-10-03T20:42:50Z")
The exception to service animal access is where permitting the animal would change the funamental nature of the service being offered the the public. An example given by the DOJ is a dog that is barking in the movie theater. The dog’s loud noises makes it impossible for the rest of the patron to experience the service rendered in a reasonable way, and thus the barking dog can be ejected (the quiet dog must be admitted). It could certainly be argued that the presence of a pig or a dog in a synogogue or mosque respectively, would render it unclean, thus, nonfunctional for the entire congregation. This is a fundamental alteration in their business that literally excludes all people who normally use it. By contrast, Muslim drivers cannot usually object to permitting service dogs in their taxis, because it does not change the fundamental service being rendered. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/6 "2012-10-03T21:41:09Z")
Can pigs be curb-trained? I had always thought they belonged to that class of herbivore that had no conscious control over sphincter function. This would disqualify them from being guide animals, wouldn’t it? It would certainly justify shops and restaurants refusing to permit them entry. If they _can_ be trained…never mind! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/7 "2012-10-03T21:43:59Z")
I’m not sure if synagogues would have any reason to prohibit swine. They aren’t kosher, but that only relates to eating them. Dogs aren’t kosher either and I’ve seen service dogs at Temple. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/8 "2012-10-03T21:49:25Z")
Is there any reason why a religious institution would be required to follow human rights laws? (Jimmy Carter switched churches wen he moved to DC because the church he would ahve gone to did not admit blacks. Ah, those were simpler times…) Commercial businesses have to follow human rights laws, but IMHO it seems obvious that telling a church what they may or may not do violates the constitution’s “Freedom of Religion” clause. Why reach for service pigs to confound rights and offensiveness? Dogs are considered filthy by Moslems too. I’m tempted to observe that maybe any bitch is not allowed in the men-only area of the institution… ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/9 "2012-10-03T21:52:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Can pigs be curb-trained? I had always thought they belonged to that class of herbivore that had no conscious control over sphincter function. This would disqualify them from being guide animals, wouldn’t it? It would certainly justify shops and restaurants refusing to permit them entry. > > If they _can_ be trained…never mind! pigs are omnivores. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/10 "2012-10-03T22:15:41Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > …By contrast, Muslim drivers cannot usually object to permitting service dogs in their taxis, because it does not change the fundamental service being rendered. I have found, with zero exceptions, that by my large sample Muslim drivers all suffer from crippling allergies to dogs. I have also found, when I have the time and inclination, that a man/woman with a badge and a gun is better than antihistamine and sudafed in curing the allergy. That is, if someone else hails the cab and I jump in, or park the dog some feet away. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/11 "2012-10-03T22:18:08Z")
Pot-bellied pigs can indeed be house-trained. > **[Keeping and Caring for Potbellied Pigs as Pets](https://www.thesprucepets.com/pot-bellied-pigs-as-pets-1237171)** > > Many people are charmed by the idea of a pet potbellied pig. While pet pigs can be fun, affectionate companions, they also require a lot of work. So, there should be no problem with a service animal defecating indoors. That would be one condition of training a service animal, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/12 "2012-10-04T04:27:13Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m not sure if synagogues would have any reason to prohibit swine. They aren’t kosher, but that only relates to eating them. Dogs aren’t kosher either and I’ve seen service dogs at Temple. Didn’t the Romans (or their Syrian puppets) defile the Temple in Jerusalem in the days of Jesus, simply by bringing swine in, and otherwise converting the Temple to use as a general marketplace (thus, the moneychangers). Or was it just the moneychangers that defiled the Temple? That should serve as quite a precedent there. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/13 "2012-10-04T04:37:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m not sure if synagogues would have any reason to prohibit swine. They aren’t kosher, but that only relates to eating them. Dogs aren’t kosher either and I’ve seen service dogs at Temple. This right here. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/14 "2012-10-04T05:03:37Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Why reach for service pigs to confound rights and offensiveness? Dogs are considered filthy by Moslems too. > > … Ah. I must say it’s great being told about what me and my fellow adherents are supposed to believe in by a presumably non Muslim person.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/15 "2012-10-04T05:12:22Z")
Yes, they can. This issue was raised when the ADA was enacted and religious buildings were given exemptions on service animal access. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/16 "2012-10-04T05:16:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Ah. I must say it’s great being told about what me and my fellow adherents are supposed to believe in by a presumably non Muslim person.:rolleyes: But isn’t that correct? Aren’t dogs considered to be ritually unclean animals by many Muslims? [cite](http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/dinistrandna.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/17 "2012-10-04T05:26:40Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Didn’t the Romans (or their Syrian puppets) defile the Temple in Jerusalem in the days of Jesus, simply by bringing swine in, and otherwise converting the Temple to use as a general marketplace (thus, the moneychangers). Or was it just the moneychangers that defiled the Temple? > > That should serve as quite a precedent there. No. The story of the moneychangers thing in the bible (if that’s what you mean) isn’t that. When the Temple was around, every adult Jewish man was supposed to pay an annual tax to help support it. The tax had to be paid using the Tyrian Shekel, which was this 14 gram silver coin minted in Tyre. Since a lot of pilgrims paid the tax when they came to the temple, there were moneychangers in the courtyard to change other currency to the Tyrian shekel/half shekel. There were also people selling animals for sacrifice there, because the big thing you did in the Temple was sacrifice animals. All this stuff happened in the Temple Courtyard. ---
**Author:** ![Bremidon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Bremidon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bremidon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/18 "2012-10-04T06:17:43Z")
For that matter, dogs (or rather, their saliva) are considered very unclean in Islam (to the point that you should never touch a Quran after touching a dog). The UK mosques seem to make an exception here: > [@](#): > > Shar’ia law dictates that dogs are unwelcome in a mosque, masjid or Islamic center. According to CAIR-MN Communications Director Valerie Shirley, “Muslims believe the saliva of dogs invalidates the ritual ablution performed before prayer. For this reason, it has become a cultural norm for individuals not to have dogs in their houses – not because the dog is unclean.” > > However, exceptions to this “no admittance for dogs in a mosque” rule have been made under specific circumstances. If you are disabled and need a guide dog to get to a mosque for worship, request that someone from the Islamic center assist you in making arrangements for your dog during your visit. > > In the United Kingdom, the Muslim Law Council UK issued a fatwa in response to a blind student’s request to bring his guide dog to his mosque in 2008. A decision was made to allow the guide dog to stay where shoes are placed at the Bilal Jamia mosque. The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association hopes that the action of this mosque will set a precedent, and that all mosques will make accommodations for the blind and their guide dogs. [http://disability.about.com/od/DisabilityFAQs/f/Are-Guide-Dogs-Allowed-In-Mosques.htm](http://disability.about.com/od/DisabilityFAQs/f/Are-Guide-Dogs-Allowed-In-Mosques.htm) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/19 "2012-10-04T09:20:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But isn’t that correct? Aren’t dogs considered to be ritually unclean animals by many Muslims? [cite](http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/dinistrandna.html) You have to perform ablution before you can pray if you have been ;playing with a dog. But you have to perform ablution before you pray if you have had sex. Urinated. Passed gas. Sweaty exersize. Gone to sleep. Been out gardening. That does not mean that muslims don’t actually do those thing. FWIW ablution takes about 2 minutes to do. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619/20 "2012-10-04T10:51:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, they can. This issue was raised when the ADA was enacted and religious buildings were given exemptions on service animal access. My wife is blind, and I have read most of the ADA laws/guidelines. I seem to remember that churches are[pretty much exempt](http://www.disabilitylawcenter.org/publications/Fact%20Sheet%20-%20Access%20and%20Rights.pdf)from ADA Title III stuff. (pdf with relevant language around mid-page). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-synagogue-or-mosque-prohibit-service-pigs/636619.md?page=2)