# Could a US President be denied security clearance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822 "2016-05-27T15:57:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/21 "2016-05-28T05:41:19Z")
The President doesn’t need to know a lot of operational details, such as the names of spies, etc. If he asked about certain things, I’m pretty sure the response would probably be something like, “Are you **REALLY** sure you want to know that?” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/22 "2016-05-28T06:12:02Z")
I think this part of the Constitution would pretty much preclude any kind of binding security clearance for the president: > [@](#): > > [The President] may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices… _Any_ subject. If the Secretary of Defense can’t let the president see something originating in the DOD because the secretary has a higher clearance than the president, that would violate the president’s right to receive the Secretary’s opinion on that subject. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/23 "2016-05-28T06:34:31Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I think this part of the Constitution would pretty much preclude any kind of binding security clearance for the president: > > _Any_ subject. If the Secretary of Defense can’t let the president see something originating in the DOD because the secretary has a higher clearance than the president, that would violate the president’s right to receive the Secretary’s opinion on that subject. I think the argument is, legally, even simpler than that. The entire document classification and security clearance system is part of the executive power. The President _is_ the executive power. Document classifications can’t be binding on him because they are based on this executive power vested in the President, which emanates from his (or her) own authority. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/24 "2016-05-28T08:16:03Z")
I understand that during WWII, both Bill Donovan and J.E. Hoover were concerned about reports sent to FDR. Not about him seeing them, but about him leaving them on his desk where Eleanor and Harry Hopkins could see them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/25 "2016-05-28T09:36:41Z")
Presidents should still be subject to arrest and imprisonment for mishandling of classified info, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/26 "2016-05-28T09:47:38Z")
Of course in reality it there are serious security concerns wrt to someone, the party might be able t exert political pressure to get them to withdraw before being nominated. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/27 "2016-05-28T11:06:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Presidents should still be subject to arrest and imprisonment for mishandling of classified info, IMO. The President could just say “Nope, I declassified that information” ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/28 "2016-05-28T11:19:51Z")
Of course, practically, if it’s obvious it’s just a matter of curiosity (“bring me the Area 51 files!”), or the president is presenting a clear and present danger to the country (imagine if Nixon adopted a “if I’m going down the country’s going down with me” mentality) there’s no practical reason the agency can’t lie or omit data. I mean, it’s not like the President has any way of knowing what they don’t know. What are they gonna do? Ask the intelligence agency to gather intelligence on whether they themselves are lying? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/29 "2016-05-28T11:48:03Z")
Any halfway competent civil servant of sufficient seniority ought to be able to “manage upwards” when the politicians get too involved in awkward details: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbjzw\_jkRW0&feature=youtu.be&t=1907](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbjzw_jkRW0&feature=youtu.be&t=1907) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/30 "2016-05-28T11:49:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The President could just say “Nope, I declassified that information” After it got stolen off his desk by the Iranian ambassador? “yes, I meant to make our nuclear targeting data public, it’s something I always wanted to do, but first I felt it necessary to let Iran know. Yeah, that’s it.” ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/31 "2016-05-28T11:49:34Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > I think the argument is, legally, even simpler than that. The entire document classification and security clearance system is part of the executive power. The President _is_ the executive power. Document classifications can’t be binding on him because they are based on this executive power vested in the President, which emanates from his (or her) own authority. It is pretty much this. The whole classification system is based on authorized classifiers (original classification authorities) that is part of the executive branch functions. As head of the executive branch, all these authorities actually originate with the President, and devolve from him. Essentially, everyone who classifies something does so as part of a chain that goes back to “The President gave me this authority”. Presidential directives as to the classification system have no other oversight. The whole “executive branch actions” thing Congress is so annoyed by with Obama reflect the same situation. As far as the executive branch of government goes, the President is the authority those groups are based on, so they have no way of countering a presidential decision. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/32 "2016-05-28T12:01:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > After it got stolen off his desk by the Iranian ambassador? > > “yes, I meant to make our nuclear targeting data public, it’s something I always wanted to do, but first I felt it necessary to let Iran know. Yeah, that’s it.” Come on adaher you know how it works. If the President does something with classified information that congress believes is a “high crime and misdemeanour” then they get impeached. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/33 "2016-05-28T12:07:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > After it got stolen off his desk by the Iranian ambassador? > > “yes, I meant to make our nuclear targeting data public, it’s something I always wanted to do, but first I felt it necessary to let Iran know. Yeah, that’s it.” As a matter of fact, yes. The President could STILL declassify that information if he/she wanted. Plus I don’t think having something stolen from the friggin’ Oval Office would be considered “mishandling of classified information” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/34 "2016-05-28T12:09:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Presidents should still be subject to arrest and imprisonment for mishandling of classified info, IMO. We can’t have the people’s government subordinate to a national security apparatus. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/35 "2016-05-28T14:59:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The President could just say “Nope, I declassified that information” That he cannot do, not without first rewriting a substantial amount of Defense Dep’t regulations. The President isn’t above the law, nor is he above military regulations. As mentioned up-thread, some information was withheld from FDR because he was incautious with it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/36 "2016-05-28T15:16:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > That he cannot do, not without first rewriting a substantial amount of Defense Dep’t regulations. The President isn’t above the law, nor is he above military regulations. As mentioned up-thread, some information was withheld from FDR because he was incautious with it. Actually, yes, he CAN do that. He is not subject to Department of Defense regulations, so those are meaningless when it comes to the President. Department of Defense regulations are not “the law” Where do you think classification authority comes from? Here’s a hint - the President and Executive orders. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/37 "2016-05-28T15:30:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Actually, yes, he CAN do that. He is not subject to Department of Defense regulations, so those are meaningless when it comes to the President. Department of Defense regulations are not “the law” > > Where do you think classification authority comes from? Here’s a hint - the President and Executive orders. From [DoD Manual 5200.01, Vol1, page 21](http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/520001_vol1.pdf) {PDF}: > [@](#): > > 1. NATIONAL AUTHORITIES FOR SECURITY MATTERS > a. President of the United States. The President of the United States bears executive responsibility for the security of the Nation, which includes the authority to classify information for the protection of the national defense and foreign relations of the United States. The President has **established standards** for the classification, safeguarding, and declassification of national security information through the issuance of Reference (d) and for the designation and protection of CUI through the issuance of Reference (e). Bolding mine Like I said, he/she would have to rewrite the regulations … ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/38 "2016-05-28T15:35:15Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > From [DoD Manual 5200.01, Vol1, page 21](http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/520001_vol1.pdf) {PDF}: > > Bolding mine > > Like I said, he/she would have to rewrite the regulations … Like I said, the President is not subject to the regulations of the DoD. You can’t say “The President can’t do that because of a DOD manual” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/39 "2016-05-28T16:19:57Z")
The President is the ultimate source of not only the process for handling classified information, but also the ultimate authority on whether or not some information ought to be classified. **manson1972** , you’re arguing that a former President has created a system using his executive power that cannot be fully exercised (such as the sections of the EO that pertain to declassification of material) by a current President using his own executive power. That is not correct. The President most certainly has sweeping powers to declare information declassified at any time, except that there may be practical or political problems that stem from use of this authority. (For example, he’d be in a political firestorm if he decided to post the design of the W-88 nuclear warhead on the website of the National Archives.) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822/40 "2016-05-28T16:24:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The President is the ultimate source of not only the process for handling classified information, but also the ultimate authority on whether or not some information ought to be classified. **manson1972** , you’re arguing that a former President has created a system using his executive power that cannot be amended or fully exercised by a current President using his own executive power. That is not correct. Actually, I’m arguing the exact opposite of that. I’m saying that the President can decide what is or is not classified, therefore he/she cannot be charged with “mishandling” classified information. DoD or other executive agencies regulations do not apply to the President. They cannot be used as a reason that the President cannot do something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-president-be-denied-security-clearance/755822.md?page=3)