# Could a US State have a State Monarchy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 27, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693 "2010-06-27T17:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/21 "2010-06-27T19:38:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I specified a governor-for-life NOT subject to recall. A GfL who IS subject to recall is not sovereign. Also, Queen Elizabeth is not head of government and has few, if any, real powers. But \*\*Pjen \*\*didn’t specify that. You didn’t answer my question, which I think is pertinent-- what is the maximum term limit allowed by the constitution? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/22 "2010-06-27T19:52:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > A governor for life is a monarch. > > A republic is not simply a state whose chief executive/head of government is not called “King,” “Queen,” “Prince,” “Princess,” or “Emperor.” A republic is a state in which sovereignty rests with the populace (or a significant portion of same) rather than any single individual or small group. If the people of Tennessee elected me Governor-for-life–meaning I was understood to be entitled to that office until I died, and no one had the legal power to remove me no matter what I did), then the people of Tennessee have surrendered their sovereignty to me, and Tennessee stops being a republic. A governor elected to a life term could still be subject to impeachment or recall. There’s no Constitutional limit on term length or term limits for state governors. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/23 "2010-06-27T19:58:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > A governor for life is a monarch. > > A republic is not simply a state whose chief executive/head of government is not called “King,” “Queen,” “Prince,” “Princess,” or “Emperor.” A republic is a state in which sovereignty rests with the populace (or a significant portion of same) rather than any single individual or small group. If the people of Tennessee elected me Governor-for-life–meaning I was understood to be entitled to that office until I died, and no one had the legal power to remove me no matter what I did), then the people of Tennessee have surrendered their sovereignty to me, and Tennessee stops being a republic. Surely that must depend on what powers are granted the chief/head according to the state constitution, though. If the people of Tennessee elect you Lord High Poobah-for-life, which office you will hold until the day you die, and nobody has the legal power to remove you from, which office entitles you to live in the Big Orange House up the road, does not require you to sign bills of the state legislature into law or to appoint officers to any state executive or legislature etecera… then the people of Tennessee have surrendered lease on a house to you, and jack-all else. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/24 "2010-06-27T19:58:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Cite? What is the time limit for a governor’s term required by the constitution. 4 years? Ten years? What if the term was 50 years, which would effectively be “for life” for most people. I believe the Supreme Court has never ruled on what a “Republican Form of Government” means in article 4, section 4. If a state changed its election rules to elect the governor for life (or 50 years), there surely would be a lawsuit, but it’s not even sure the Supreme Court would even hear it (it being a political question). At least, that’s my understanding. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Padme Amidala, in the Star Wars prequels, was called Queen but was not a monarch; she held office for a specific term and had to be elected to it. Yes she was. [Elective monarchy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elective_monarchy). She’s even given as an example, but there are also real-life examples mentioned in the article. > [@](#): > > Kim Jim Il, of North Korea, is called president but is actually a monarch; he cannot be recalled by the people. He certainly cannot be recalled by the people, but no, he isn’t (officially) a monarch. [Crowned republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowned_republic), and he’s given as an example there (along with historical examples). Really, the only real definition we have of “monarchy” is a country where the head of state is a king, queen, prince, grand-duke or other “monarchical” title, and the only real definition we have of “republic” is all other countries. There really isn’t a dividing line between both types of governments. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/25 "2010-06-27T21:56:06Z")
Here’s a [thread on possible forms of state government](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=374809) from a few years back. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/26 "2010-06-28T23:21:21Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I believe the Supreme Court has never ruled on what a “Republican Form of Government” means in article 4, section 4. In a manner of speaking, they have, in Luther v. Borden, 48 U.S. 1 (1849): > [@SCOTUS](#): > > The fourth section of the fourth article of the Constitution of the United States provides that the United States shall guarantee to every State in the Union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on the application of the legislature or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence. > > Under this article of the Constitution it rests with Congress to decide what government is the established one in a State. For as the United States guarantee to each State a republican government, Congress must necessarily decide what government is established in the State before it can determine whether it is republican or not. It is, in other words, the decision of the Supreme Court that the question is non-justicible. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/27 "2010-06-28T23:49:00Z")
While I still think the term _republic_ is meaningless if we call North Korea one, and that a queen who is elected to a specific term, cannot be re-elected, and has to have the consent of her legislature for major policy initiatives is just a resident with a nostalgic name, y’all have convinced me that the the weight of evidence is against me, and thus I will concede that I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/28 "2010-06-29T01:30:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Kim Jim Il, of North Korea, is called president but is actually a monarch; he cannot be recalled by the people. The correct name is Kim Jong Il (김정일) and that individual is not called the president of the People’s Democratic Republic of Korea. That “honor”’ goes to his deceased father, the Eternal President. Kim Jong Il is the General Secretary of the Worker’s Party of Korea and Chairman of the National Defense Commission. It is the latter is that is considered to be the highest political office that can be held by a living person in North Korea. Links: [Wiki article on KJI.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il) [Wiki article on KIS.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il-sung) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/29 "2010-06-29T14:21:27Z")
You cannot say that Canada lacks a republican form of government just because it has a monarch. She (or her personal representative) could in principle veto an act of parliament, but the result would be rioting in the streets. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693/30 "2010-06-29T15:24:08Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > You cannot say that Canada lacks a republican form of government just because it has a monarch. Well, yeah, you certainly can. That’s the whole definition of a “republican form of government”. Canada is a democracy, to be sure, but it’s not a republic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-a-us-state-have-a-state-monarchy/544693.md?page=1)